M1A2 SEP Engagement Ranges

[lavictoireestlavie]

Hello Everyone,

what is the maximum effective lase distance in the m1a2 sep tank. I an previous engagement i was able to lase and destroy a target out to about 4600 m with the FLIR at 50x magnification, but i have not been able to do so again. Whats the proper procedure to engage targets in an M1A2 sep ?

[Rotareneg]

It appears that the fire control system will work out to 5 km, but the AI commander will only tell you to fire if the target is 4k or closer. The laser will still report ranges well beyond 5k, but anything over 5k will require "Kentucky windage" to hit (I hope you brought plenty of ammo.)

[Agiel]

My guess is that you'll still want to restrict yourself to engaging targets up to 2500m, as at ranges any longer than that the problem isn't the ballistics computer but ballistic and target deviation, and even the M-829A3 will struggle to penetrate a T-80U or T-90A.

I'd say the biggest boone of the 50x zoom is that it allows me to engage targets in hull-down or prepared defenses. It also makes it possible to aim for specific portions of a tank, so aim for the mantlet and send that T-80's head flying all the way back to Omsk.

[dejawolf]

It also makes it possible to aim for specific portions of a tank, so aim for the mantlet and send that T-80's head flying all the way back to Omsk.

T-80s were designed in kharkiv

[lavictoireestlavie]

I was able to pick off T-72M1 with the M1A2 SEP to around 5000 m on average several times with about a 50% chance of a hit. The T-72M1s were defending and did not engage me from that distance.

I am sorta proud that i broke my old distance record of 4400 m :luxhello:

What kind of ranges do you all attempt to engage targets ? I usually try to start hitting moving and stationary targets from about 4000 m out. It is a challenge with my Logitech Attack 3 joystick. :c:

[Grenny]

I was able to pick off T-72M1 with the M1A2 SEP to around 5000 m on average several times with about a 50% chance of a hit. The T-72M1s were defending and did not engage me from that distance.

I am sorta proud that i broke my old distance record of 4400 m :luxhello:

What kind of ranges do you all attempt to engage targets ? I usually try to start hitting moving and stationary targets from about 4000 m out. It is a challenge with my Logitech Attack 3 joystick. :c:

Well, IRL above 4000 against a "mover" is a waste of ammo and gives your position away.

[Lt DeFault]

What kind of ranges do you all attempt to engage targets ?

In my limited trigger time with the M1A2, I have been engaging out to ~3500m. I'll need a little more practice to confidently shoot farther than that. I think I'll set up my own range scenario to help with my training. Come to think of it, I should've done that long ago. :redface:

I have noticed, while playing a modified version of "Are They Attacking Here", that my AI gunners seem to have a bit of a problem getting a good lase at 3000m+ from a hull down position. (Granted, the targets are not exactly sitting in an open field, either.) I'm sure my difficulty is set to medium and my gunnery score is 100%. I'm going to experiment with this and report back. For now, in that scenario at least, I set fire control for the M1A2s to 3500m max.

[Assassin 7]

The SEP can engage targets at 4990 meters. When I engage targets at that range I use 25x and black hot instead of white hot. I just did a test with 3 T-90's moving. The first one took 3 hits. The second 1 shot kill and the 3rd one shot kill. Both turret pops. The range was at 4600 meters. Now they were on flat terrain not hilly terrain, so at that range I would not take a shot in a normal battle, but just observed and call arty. The LRF can range on targets located 25 meters to 7990 meters from tank, with an accuracy of ±10 meters. Ballistics solutions for main gun are 200 meters to 4990 meters.

[Invader ZIM]

Is this extreme range performance partly due to the advantage of Depleted Uranium penetrators?

The longer barrel Leopard 2A6's and Leopardo 2E have great tungsten penetrators like DM53 that show a higher penetration at the muzzle vs the M1's M829A3, but after flyout to over 2km, do these tungsten rounds lose penetration ability quicker than the M829A3? Or because they start out with higher velocity than the A3, do things pretty much equal out?

Just curious.

[lavictoireestlavie]

Delta what was your hit percentage. I was only able to hit a moving target (a Challenger 2) from about 4600 m. How good is your gunnery ?

[Assassin 7]

Delta what was your hit percentage. I was only able to hit a moving target (a Challenger 2) from about 4600 m. How good is your gunnery ?

The first target two round misses, 3 rounds hits. The second target first round hit. The third target first round hit.

[Assassin 7]

here is my gunnery score. The best one I ever shot

[GSprocket]

Is this extreme range performance partly due to the advantage of Depleted Uranium penetrators?

The longer barrel Leopard 2A6's and Leopardo 2E have great tungsten penetrators like DM53 that show a higher penetration at the muzzle vs the M1's M829A3, but after flyout to over 2km, do these tungsten rounds lose penetration ability quicker than the M829A3? Or because they start out with higher velocity than the A3, do things pretty much equal out?

Just curious.

DU has slightly lower high velocity penetration than the equivalent WHA rod, but has a slight edge in ultra long range performance. Nothing really in it though ~ a few 10s of mm difference in most cases at most.

A typical modern Long Rod (from 120mm gun) will still have between 85 and 93% of the muzzle performance at 4km. Older rounds, slower rounds and smaller calibres will tend to lose more relative performance (though often less absolute differences).

Loss per km is around 2.5-3.5% for modern large calibre long rods, around 10% for 25mm APFSDS or 125mm BM-9, and around 15% for 25mm APDS.

Reducing penetration for KE penetrators is often greatly exaggerated, and is only important in the case where the rod is marginal for penetration of the target. For many combinations of rod/target there is no overlap of penetration and protection ~ either the target is too tough in the protected zones, and chance and the smaller weakened zones are solely vulnerable, or the round will easily penetrate almost the whole target array irrespective of range.

All the estimates for DM53 and M829 series suggest that DM53/L44 is nearer to M829A1 performance levels, and DM53/L55 nearer to M829A2 levels... M829A3 is a generation newer, with a much more massive rod. It seems highly improbable that DM53 can come close to it, despite the 13% higher velocity from the longer tube. M829A2 and to an even greater extent M829A3 use weight reductions in the sabots (composite materials and Computer Aided Lay-up and material level optimisation & design) have slashed the parasitic fraction compared to all other reported NATO-style in-service rounds, most of which still use Aluminium sabots. This permits larger rods or higher velocity than would otherwise be possible, at lower pressure levels.

[Invader ZIM]

Wow! Informative, thanks for that info GSprocket, I appreciate it.

P.S. Dta Delta.... 2.9 Seconds engagement time!!! I gotta know how you do that! My best is 5.2 seconds.

[stormrider_sp]

I was able to pick off T-72M1 with the M1A2 SEP to around 5000 m on average several times with about a 50% chance of a hit. The T-72M1s were defending and did not engage me from that distance.

I am sorta proud that i broke my old distance record of 4400 m :luxhello:

What kind of ranges do you all attempt to engage targets ? I usually try to start hitting moving and stationary targets from about 4000 m out. It is a challenge with my Logitech Attack 3 joystick. :c:

For me I usually go for the 3200m. Dont know why, intuitively it just make sense somehow.

[BlackDeath]

All the estimates for DM53 and M829 series suggest that DM53/L44 is nearer to M829A1 performance levels, and DM53/L55 nearer to M829A2 levels... M829A3 is a generation newer, with a much more massive rod. It seems highly improbable that DM53 can come close to it, despite the 13% higher velocity from the longer tube. M829A2 and to an even greater extent M829A3 use weight reductions in the sabots (composite materials and Computer Aided Lay-up and material level optimisation & design) have slashed the parasitic fraction compared to all other reported NATO-style in-service rounds, most of which still use Aluminium sabots. This permits larger rods or higher velocity than would otherwise be possible, at lower pressure levels.

With all those technologies, is the round more expensive than the target?

[Grenny]

The problem with these long ranges is not the penetration power, but shot deviation.

The normal-distribution for round at ranges over 3000/3500m is significantly bigger, then the average target area of an enemy AFV...the chance to really hit anything(even if you do everything right as a gunner) are getting pretty slim.

Point is how far Sb is able to calculate the influences or (small) errors in the rounds*, powder humidity, air turbulence and stuff that come into play at these ranges.

*note: fins on a sabot round are configured in away to rotate the round a bit. This is to even out manufacturing errors that adversely influence the aerodynamics of the round.

[Ssnake]

With all those technologies, is the round more expensive than the target?

The question is not quite so absurd as you may think, actually. Currently a 120mm DM63 (=DM53 with temperature-insensitive propellant) is tagged at about 7,000.- Euros per cartridge. I think the scrap value of a Leopard 1 is at around 7,000.- Euros as well.

[3instein]

Just out of curiosity,if you fired one of these projectiles straight up in the air,how far would it travel?

Mick.

[Tjay]

An even better question is: 'How do you get such good broadband performance?' :clin:

[Grenny]

The question is not quite so absurd as you may think, actually. Currently a 120mm DM63 (=DM53 with temperature-insensitive propellant) is tagged at about 7,000.- Euros per cartridge. I think the scrap value of a Leopard 1 is at around 7,000.- Euros as well.

The funny thing is that the DM53 performs much better then the DM63 in the typical med-eastern climate parameters ;-)

(higher powder temp.=faster burn rate=more gas pressure=higher v0)

[Lt DeFault]

Delta [...] How good is your gunnery ?

I can tell you from being on the wrong side of his gun...very good. :gun::eek2:

[Ssnake]

Just out of curiosity,if you fired one of these projectiles straight up in the air,how far would it travel?

Approximately 150 kilometers at about 40...43° angle. That's just a guess. The safety range of 120mm DM33 was about 130km. For comparison, 7.62mm NATO will fly to a max range of about 4.4 kilometers.

[stormrider_sp]

An even better question is: 'How do you get such good broadband performance?' :clin:

He´s Einstein, he travels faster than light!

:men_ani:

[3instein]

Approximately 150 kilometers at about 40...43° angle. That's just a guess. The safety range of 120mm DM33 was about 130km. For comparison, 7.62mm NATO will fly to a max range of about 4.4 kilometers.

Thanks for the reply Ssnake, never thought it would be as far as that,I thought about 20-25 miles. :c:

You learn something new every day.

About the Broadband speed,that was about 6 months ago,I now only have the 30mbit D/L speed now as it is cheaper,I must redo my sig.

Cheers,

Mick.