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Amazing Russian Tank Gunnery


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:confused:

lol, that is strange, I can't replicate that. My T-80's only use BM-42 at just over 3km.

:confused:

This is driving me nuts, I wonder why there's such a discrepancy in the engagement range on the T-80 between your version of the sim and mine lavictoireestlavie.

I tried with Hard AI, using a Centaro with 105mm gun, and still managed to fire on and disable the T-80 before it could engage me with BM-42 at around 3.7km, even though I started driving toward it 5km away as it faced me.

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This may relate to this issue. There are times when a M1A2 SEP will try to engage units at some insane range and through terrain where there should be no LOS. I do not know what causes this as it seems random and fairly uncommon. I can go back and play the same scenario and they will behave. For all I know, the OPFOR may try to do the same from time to time.

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I tried changing the ammo loadout for the T-80 in my test to see if there were any changes to how it engages.

I did find one anomaly, if I put a single AT-11 in the T-80U in the ready rounds position, the T-80 will see and fire a single BM-42 at me at 5km, the round fell far short of me though. After that, the tank operated as normal not seeing me until I got within 3.2km.

I did another test with a T-80 loaded with the maximum amount of ready and stored AT-11's and BM-42's. This made for some interesting play, I actually dodged all four AT-11's using smoke trying to close the distance hoping to force it to fire BM-42's at me in excess of 3.5km, but after it ran out of AT-11, the T-80 would only engage when I got to 3.2km.

This is a bit of an interesting AI mystery, I'm interested to see what other's can find about this strange long range BM-42. It seems Mokkeri also experiences the same behavior.

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There doesn't seem to be much mystery:

The APFSDS has previously been the longest ranged ammunition, with HEAT shorter ranged.

With the introduction of HE and Cannon Launched-ATGM the APFSDS is now third in the queue. It is still however loaded first as the battle-carry round.

While ATGM are present, the gunner should 'fire off' the APFSDS with a non-solution and possibly kentucky windage, though the FC limit is less than 5km so accuracy should be indifferent at excessive range.

Once the first APFSDS is expended he should load ATGM for the long range shots until they are all expended.

The next longest ranged nature is HE, but this is not the correct round for A/T fires, so carry Sabot is ordered. The gunner checks he is in range (which he *is* carrying HE rounds) and engages, but he should according to the ammunition table be holding fire with APFSDS down to 3200/3500 m according to type, and then HEAT down to 2700/2800m according to type... (you'll note that HEAT is also expended at extended ranges if HE or ATGM are present, and APFSDS are not).

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GSprocket, in my case the T-80Us keep on firing their BM-42s rounds exclusively starting right at the 5000m mark.

That may be because you still have ATGM in the 'stowed' ammunition?

With HE, HEAT and APFSDS I get fire started at 4km (HE max range) and this is exclusively APFSDS (followed once expended by HEAT, still at 4km), but with AT11, the first APFSDS goes at 5km, the AT11 fires next, more APFSDS follow, still at 5km, and HEAT after that... No HE rounds are expended against tanks, even though their extended engagement range permits longer ranges from HEAT and APFSDS engagements on a routine basis.

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Well, I figured I'd see what my results were if I let the T-80U have AT-11 in the stowed position, no ready rounds, only BM-42 ready and stowed.

At 5km, the T-80 is watching you and tracking, but did not engage, as I drove closer, when I got about 3.5km the first AT-11 was fired at me, and shortly after it hit another was fired around 3.3km.

I was not engaged by BM-42 as I decided it was more fun to put the T-80 out of it's misery.

However, it's sort of a cool setup where you can have the AI watch you as long as visibility conditions allow, and be ready to engage. Well, at least until the AT-11 was taken out of stowage and used against me.

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The AI will not unload the loaded round in order to reload the appropriate round. It will fire what is loaded then load the required round.

I made test again. T80U(default ammo) start engage my M1a2 with BM-42 from 5000m and scored 4 hits(and few miss) then it switch to he or heat, no hits to me all went over. At 3300m it fired first missile and continue using missile until my tank was dead.

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I just wonder how a t-80u can even hit a stationary or moving target from over 4000 m with KE rounds with the thermal/daysights it has. A target should not be more than a few pixels on the screen from that a distance in the thermals. The reticule will most likely be larger than the target in the optics. :c:

I certainly cannot do it in a western T-80U contemporary like the Leopard 2a4 or Abrams (M1-M1A1HA). Why are these T-80U gunners just so good ? :Crash:

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I hope that others will make some tests also.

Well I just tried it (two T80's, one blind and stationary, the other with default loadout). The shooting tank moved to almost exactly 5km, stopped, and then scored the following hits (in order):

  • 5x BM-42
  • 1x BK21
  • 4x AT-11

It then moved forwards to about ~3k and sat there with AT-11 selected but zero ready and not shooting, so I gave up...

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  • 2 weeks later...
I just wonder how a t-80u can even hit a stationary or moving target from over 4000 m with KE rounds with the thermal/daysights it has. A target should not be more than a few pixels on the screen from that a distance in the thermals. The reticule will most likely be larger than the target in the optics. :c:

I certainly cannot do it in a western T-80U contemporary like the Leopard 2a4 or Abrams (M1-M1A1HA). Why are these T-80U gunners just so good ? :Crash:

I believe it's not the tank but the AI giving you problem.

I won't have my dongle with me for some days so I can't run tests but did you try your test with NATO tanks on OPFOR side?

I used to fool around with crewable T-72M1 against Western equipment and I remember experiencing similar excellent gunnery by AI.

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Let me guess: Your difficulty setting is "hard", and you observe that it is difficult to deal with the OpFor?

My difficulty settings is low and realism is high. In my test t-80 was stationary and my M1 start driving full speed to T-80 from 7km. At 5 km it start shooting with sabot.

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Maybe its to balance out the BMPs not shooting at anything!

seriously though, If The T-80 is too much for you, there are plenty other Russian/Soviet Tanks you can shoot.

I recommend starting at the T-55 and working your way up. :D

No t-80 is not too much but is it normal that it's using sabot from 5km and not missile, it switch to missile at 3km

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I tried the T-80U scenario with BM-42M rounds and Refleks stowed away. The three tanks started to engage me at 3300 m. I guess ill just used the T-80Us like that for now.

Hoggydog, the T-80U should not engage us from 5km with sabots at all. Given the optics on the Leo 2s and Abrams tanks (excluding the M1A2 SEP) tracking and engaging targets from over 4000m is just not effective. The ballistic computer wont even provide a solution for distances beyond 4000m.

I wonder how T-80Us can pull off stunts like that. With engagement ranges of over 4000 m, a target would not be much more than a few pixels in diameter in the thermals even at max magnification.

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