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Hasty defense scenario winnable?

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I was wondering after getting pounded relentlessly if the hasty defense single player scenario is winnable. It's the one that starts out with the 4 Bradley screening units with the Soviet helicopters then hordes of tanks and APCs.

I usually end up chasing down the main body with one or two beat up tanks.

Any tips would help.

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For the Hinds, their best offensive weapons are their missiles, of which they need quite a bit of standoff to use effectively. Station your Cavalry Bradleys in favourable terrain (hilly areas, in woods) so that they can ambush them. You will find the Hinds' considerable armour (for slicks) doesn't stack up terribly well to 25mm autocannon fire.

Despite the seemingly large front you have to cover (I've read somewhere a real-life tanker said the front you cover in that scenario was twice as wide as a force of the size you are given was expected to cover), there are in reality two chokepoints (the valley to the north that's a perfect kill-zone, and a road that is the only way to climb up a steep incline in the center) to cover and one relatively wide plain to the south which is perfect terrain for the lion's share of your Abrams and Bradleys to cover from hull-down.

Do not commit your entire force to defending a single phaseline; use leapfrogging overwatch in reverse as you retreat back to Eischenzell (as one sections or platoon is retreating to another favourable position after firing one or two salvos, the one behind them gives them covering fire, then repeat). Displacing after a few salvos bears repeating as the REDFOR is pretty good with with its artillery spotting...

And I'm sure Ssnake is about to put me on a high chair with a dunce hat. These are the best I can offer, and I only make a comfortable amount of progress in that scenario half the times I play it and I only manage a victory about a third of the time. I'm sure there are tons of people smarter than me can offer more viable tips.

Edited by Agiel

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Yes, it is winnable!

Before I explain my own tactics, I should explain that I play with "High" Realism settings and "Medium" difficulty. M1A1 and Bradleys vs T72's and BMP2's .

My gunnery score is 93% so I can usually count on my AI to take care of business!

And my tactics are based on valuable tips about this scenario that I've picked up from my regular trolls of SB forums. And my own natural tendency to simplify things as much as possible to accommodate my lazy brain.

First, I just leave the forward scouts where they are, on 'Hold' with 'Retreat Back If...' orders. Usually set for 'under direct fire' or ' 3 enemy units in sight'. I label them on my planning map as CF1, CF2, etc (Cannon Fodder). I don't expect them to survive very long but they usually survive long enough to indicate where the main thrust is coming, and they also do a good job taking out those pesky Hinds!

Back west, I establish 3 zones: North Guard, Centre Guard, and South Guard, just east of the 'Knight' line.

North Guard handles the north valley and usually consists of the CO's tank, XO's tank and the M2A2 platoon.

Centre Guard handles the central plains with a M1A1 platoon.

South Guard gets the south valley with the second M1A1 platoon.

In my earlier losing attempts (Lots!) with this scenario, I was always running out of ammo just when I needed it most. Throwing rocks, ramming attempts, yelling bad words...it wasn't pretty!

So following up on tips from the forum, I moved my supply trucks up with the Centre Guard and tucked them in a little gully behind their battle positions. As the platoon backs down the hill after a few salvoes (in their artillery avoidance dance), they re-supply while the hill is pounded. Then pop back up in a bit to re-engage the enemy. Rinse and repeat!

Once the main enemy thrust is identified, I'll usually divide either the Centre or South platoon and send over 2 tanks to support the other.

In the North, I place the two tanks on the southern side of the valley on an elevation facing east. I tuck the Bradley platoon in a gully on the north side, away from the main action, to ambush enemy units that get through.

And while my surviving scouts are retreating, I try and drop off troops in wooded areas to further disrupt and delay enemy advances.

As for all the other units on tracks or wheels, they're sent to various points on the map to give further warning of enemy activity (as they're being shelled to oblivion). I know it's unprofessional but until I learn how to use the FIST vehicle, medical, etc...they're cannon fodder.

Now, while all this is going on, I'm jumping around to various units to extract them from trees, move them away from arty strikes, shoot Hinds, etc. This scenario is a blast! It could be its own game. "The Hasty Defense Game"!

And that's about it. Usually I manage to delay and drastically reduce the enemy forces, especially in the central plains. Their remnants are left to be chased down by my remnants, I usually have one intact platoon left with ammo for that task. And I usually know where the enemy is by that point.

I score victories consistently now, with the enemy in retreat. No major victories yet. I'll have to learn to use my other units more efficiently, not just as 'cannon fodder'!

Scores of 650-750 out of 1000.

Hope this is helpful

I'm pretty tired right now and there may be some points I'm forgetting but I'll follow up. And I'm definitely open to suggestions and advice.

Cheers

Ceedub

Edited by ceedub
mispellings

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Wow, I am just glad people are having fun with that scenario. For added challenge (misery?) try the Hasty Defense 01 (DE) Leo1 -- firing spit wads at T-62s is tough. ;)

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First, I just leave the forward scouts where they are, on 'Hold' with 'Retreat Back If...' orders. Usually set for 'under direct fire' or ' 3 enemy units in sight'.

I don't want to second guess your INTENT, but I suspect that they actually aren't doing what you expect them to do.

First of all, if there is no unconditioned route leading away from a battleposition, the unit's behavior will equal "Hold" irrespective of the waypoint's settings (!)

Second, if you have a retreat route and the condition "retreat back if...", what will happen is that the unit will RETURN to its original battleposition (!!!). "Retreat back, if..." is intended to be used while you are on the move, moving forward (like, a scout coming under fire as he probes forward).

Instead, what you need is a route with tactics "retreat" and an "embark, if..." condition matching the description that you gave before. Read up more on this subject in chapter 8 of the user's manual, which is the most important one of all chapters.

Finally, I'd recommend to put them on "Hold Fire" orders unless you want to use the TOW missiles for long range attrition (which is a risky practice).

I shall now end this public service announcement for your regularly scheduled thread program.

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Wow, I am just glad people are having fun with that scenario. For added challenge (misery?) try the Hasty Defense 01 (DE) Leo1 -- firing spit wads at T-62s is tough. ;)

where is this at?its not in my folder.Can i get a link plz.

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where is this at?its not in my folder.Can i get a link plz.

They are in the scenarios\classics folder in SB when loading a mission.

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This is one of my favorite missions. never gets old for me. The trick is to butcher as much of the enemy as you can without losing too many of your units. Notice that the terrain is very European-rife with hills and the such that can be very effectively used, that is if you can get your AI to hide behind them (What Tacbat said, go MP). Just move between them, don't stay static, then artillery will get you.

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They are in the scenarios\classics folder in SB when loading a mission.

ok,thnx.thoght there was a new one made.

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I don't want to second guess your INTENT, but I suspect that they actually aren't doing what you expect them to do.

First of all, if there is no unconditioned route leading away from a battleposition, the unit's behavior will equal "Hold" irrespective of the waypoint's settings (!)

Second, if you have a retreat route and the condition "retreat back if...", what will happen is that the unit will RETURN to its original battleposition (!!!). "Retreat back, if..." is intended to be used while you are on the move, moving forward (like, a scout coming under fire as he probes forward).

Instead, what you need is a route with tactics "retreat" and an "embark, if..." condition matching the description that you gave before. Read up more on this subject in chapter 8 of the user's manual, which is the most important one of all chapters.

Finally, I'd recommend to put them on "Hold Fire" orders unless you want to use the TOW missiles for long range attrition (which is a risky practice).

I shall now end this public service announcement for your regularly scheduled thread program.

Thanks Ssnake

Actually, I do set up a "retreat" route and then set the "embark, if..." conditions. I just didn't chose my phrasing carefully enough in the original post.

The "Hold Fire" order for my scouts is a good idea and I'll be sure to tweak my planning accordingly.

Cheers

Ceedub

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I've never beaten this scenario.

I am normally defeated because a very very very small enemy force is able to skirt my boundary and win. Kind of lame..

Realistically, wouldn't the Soviets want to sieze the road as a main axis of advance? I wish there was an open version of the sce somewhere.

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eh, winning this scenario isn't too hard if you play 4 player coop.

it's just the AI who are too retarded to put up a good defense.

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eh, winning this scenario isn't too hard if you play 4 player coop.

it's just the AI who are too retarded to put up a good defense.

And its not hard to win in SP but needs just more planing and routes and many battlepositions for AI , so its maybe more ""hard"" in map :c:

AI in steel beasts is way better than many other sims or games what i play.

It just needs good orders from human. I play lots of SP so after you learn how and why AI do things it get's easy to get those bit brains to do what i want.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mogwa View Post

They are in the scenarios\classics folder in SB when loading a mission

I do not have this folder in my list of scenarios in the Offline Session Menu and I cannot find the scenario in the Download Section. Is it on my original Installation Disk and if so, how would I get to it? Is it possible to download this scenario?

Thanks,

Connaugh

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It comes with the normal 3.002 install. It's in the Scenarios folder, not the My Scenarios one. The path to the folder, on Windows 7 at least, is: C:\ProgramData\eSim Games\Steel Beasts\scenarios\Classics

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When in the file selection dialog, look at the top of the window where it lists "My Scenarios" as the root directory. Click on the arrow/triangle next to it, then pick "Scenarios" as the root, then the corresponding subdirectory.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mogwa View Post

They are in the scenarios\classics folder in SB when loading a mission

I do not have this folder in my list of scenarios in the Offline Session Menu and I cannot find the scenario in the Download Section. Is it on my original Installation Disk and if so, how would I get to it? Is it possible to download this scenario?

Thanks,

Connaugh

Take a look at this post. Hopefully it will make things more clear.

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showpost.php?p=251863&postcount=2

Cheers.

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