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Damian90

M1 ECP1 upgrade and new diesel engine.

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At last - a knowledgeable analysis of a tricky subject. Thanks.

One question: there are a number of modern 1200/1500shp turbines in service in 'propjet' aircraft and helicopters. Wouldn't one of those be a good replacement for the existing unit?

Yes,

The AGT1500 is itself an older helicopter engine.

There is a difference between buying something off the shelf (already out there and ready to go), and modifying an engine based on another where many of the systems around that motor also need changed up. Buying off the shelf will be cheaper, lower risk, and a quick solution.

I just can't see them stretching the life of the AGT1500 for another 20-30 years. Assuming there is no major conflict where things change rapidly and we might see new generations of vehicles come on board, that is how long these old steel clunkers will be around.

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Over 30 years in use and people still hate on the turbine. Instead of trying to stick a diesel engine in the Tank they should have been working on modernizing the turbine. Make it smaller and more fuel efficient.

I'm with you 100% Red6.

To me this whole "dieselation" is about contract money and corruption.

Don't get me started on the M2A1 (caliber .50) charging cable!

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Over 30 years in use and people still hate on the turbine. Instead of trying to stick a diesel engine in the Tank they should have been working on modernizing the turbine. Make it smaller and more fuel efficient.

How you want to do this with obsolete design, because yeah, AGT-1500 is obsolete. And LV100-5 had been cancelled. There is no gas turbine for tanks in development, deal with it.

To me this whole "dieselation" is about contract money and corruption.

How this can be called corruption? Off the shelf MB883 diesel is cheaper than starting the whole new R&D program for new gas turbine engine.

And it is even more funny to call GDLS corrupted. As far as I observed how they provide their services and how other arms companies do it, GDLS is probably the least corrupted if corrupted at all.

They do things below costs and try to do it as quick as it is possible. In fact they were trying to reduce costs from the beggining, for example their GCV proposal was builded around idea to unify M1 tank with GCV on components level. Both M1 and GDLS GCV would share the same new engine, transmission, tracks, suspension and other components that could be made common.

They are probably the one of the last relatively reasonable companies in arms industry. Contrary to BAE for example, with their high risk, expensive revolutionary solutions.

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Maybe not, but I can't see that it would be difficult to adapt one of the current generation of small gas turbine for tank use. After all, they get adapted and used in many other applications. Please note that I am not in one camp or the other on this issue - just seeking information.

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Maybe not, but I can't see that it would be difficult to adapt one of the current generation of small gas turbine for tank use. After all, they get adapted and used in many other applications. Please note that I am not in one camp or the other on this issue - just seeking information.

It is one of many possible explanations, however still, such engine needs adaptation work to be used in a tank. After all off the shelf diesel engine for tank, might be much simpler to adapt and manufacture.

Don't get me wrong, I like both diesels an gas turbines. However we live in such times when diesel might actually be more attractive solution than gas turbine.

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At last - a knowledgeable analysis of a tricky subject. Thanks.

One question: there are a number of modern 1200/1500shp turbines in service in 'propjet' aircraft and helicopters. Wouldn't one of those be a good replacement for the existing unit?

I wouldn't say that, from this guy (Red 6) posts I would say maybe he should go read more on the Theory of Operations for the Abrams

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I know Damian90, you are correct, I was just "soap-boxing" to be honest. But like TJay said, they could have put the effort into adapting a newer turbine, not a diesel. Just saying.

I stand by my point though about the motivation not being entirely about making a better Tank, but changing the Tank to make a buck. This is 100% my opinion though, so there's no need to beat it up, and you are right that the facts are facts and the diesel is more than likely coming.

And BTW you sound like you work in Lima, OH :)-

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I stand by my point though about the motivation not being entirely about making a better Tank, but changing the Tank to make a buck.

And what is wrong with making tank better and in the same time make a buck? :)

Industry needs money to exist, this is a fact, and these that don't support own industry will loose it.

Seriously GDLS is one of the best companies focused on AFV's development and manufacturing, loosing this capability will be a serious blow to US defence system.

Oh and there is one more good thing that M1 will receive diesel... foreing contracts. One of major problems with M1 exports was that not everybody wanted a turbine engine.

Today USA have approx 3000 M1 in long term storage, that is a lot of tanks, and there are countries that want second hand tanks that are cheaper than new builds.

You must remember that currently last significant numbers of cheap second hand Leopard 2's were sold to Poland and Finland, "the pond is dry", so M1 can actually find a lot of customers, if there will be diesel engine for it.

And BTW you sound like you work in Lima, OH -

Ha I would wish! Perhaps some day I will visit USA and Lima plant if there will be such possibility.

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