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smithcorp

Employing M1064A3?

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Hi all - any tips on getting M1064A3 to engage using on-board mortars? I set up a test mission to try these out but couldn't get them to fire.

I set up some red trucks about 3K yards away, gave the M1064A3s a defend order (they spotted the trucks and deployed in line with rear toward enemy as the Wiki says) but wouldn't engage.

I tried giving fire mission orders for HE Mortar, immediate suppression and fire when ready, I tried putting an FO next to them, nothing. Targets were well within range (shaded area of tactics wedge).

I added a dismount mortar unit who delivered the fire mission as requested, but the M1064A3s would not engage. I let the missions run for more than 10 minutes (testing in mission editor) with no result. Mission was set to allow AI to call for fire, and all units can call for fire.

Am I missing something or are there other conditions that must be met?

Any help appreciated. I tried the wiki and the manual, and the "Queen of the Battlefield" guide with no joy.

smith

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I've run into this issue too. I give a an order to fire and they will often sit waiting for approval. Once in a while things go smoothly. And, again the dismounted mortar units will fire every time. I'll check out Tacbat's test too.

Well, Tacbat's test worked just fine....hmmm. Back to the drawing board for me ;-)

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My understanding is that the AI will never call for fire missions from on-map mortars (or BM-21's). So, I guess this includes direct-lay fire missions of the kind you're suggesting. Did you try a call for fire from these units? That works fine for me.

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For some reason, I seem to recall that the AI would in fact call mortar fire from the M1064s as if they were self propelled guns.

A while back there was some talk about on map SP arty not wanting to fire when it could see enemy units. Maybe its the same problem here?

Another thing that could maybe be addressed would be the "direct fire" application of artillery and mortar units.

For example, if you take away the AI's ability to call fire missions, M109s, M1064s, and perhaps most importantly infantry mortar teams will just sit there and do nothing. I'd like to see those units be able to use their gun/mortar to engage targets when they have a direct line of sight to the target within visual range.

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This is strange. When I run Tacbat's scenario, everything works fine. But when I created my own scenario, the mortars would not fire unless I destroyed the target with my MG first. :confused:

My tests used the new beta. Scenario attached.

M1064A3_Test_2_zip.a0965d3015fee28d958b6

M1064A3_Test_2.zip

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This is strange. When I run Tacbat's scenario, everything works fine. But when I created my own scenario, the mortars would not fire unless I destroyed the target with my MG first. :confused:

Well, that gunners for you, innit?

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It seems they get mighty confused if they can directly see an enemy, setting them to blind works around the problem.

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It seems they get mighty confused if they can directly see an enemy, setting them to blind works around the problem.

This worked for me.

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Seems likely that spotting an enemy puts the mortar vehicle AI into the "under threat" AI behavior state (or whatever the program calls it internally). When this happens to combat vehicles, they button up. Assuming the M1064 buttons up too, that would make it a bit hazardous to fire the mortar!

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Yes, I noticed the "turret" on the tank compass also swings to face the front of the vehicle when the threat is within LOS. I'm not sure if this is due to the "button up" behavior, or a conflict between the new on map arty vehicle behavior and the traditional model. IOW, I'm guessing it's possible there's a coded behavior to swing the "turret" to face the front of the vehicle because normally the driver would point the hull toward the enemy, not away as with the mortars.

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Thanks to Tacbat for the test scenario. I have played about a bit and it certainly appears that the mortar carriers being able to see enemy prevents them from firing.

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On possible fix would be to make the mortars blind, but then you had better keep them out of harm's way! (Are blind units still cognizant of SPOTREPs issued by other friendlies, though? Might defeat my suggestion.)

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Blind units have full knowledge of the overall situation, but they neither contribute to it nor can they effectively react to it.

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I tested the "blind" situation with the M1064A3 using Tacbat's test sce. Results:

1. Unit does not have LoS to target and is set to Blind - unit will respond to arty call and fires. Doesn't manoeuvre before firing.

2. Unit has LoS to target and is set to Blind - unit responds to arty call and fires. Doesn't manoeuvre before firing.

3. Unit has LoS to target and is set to Normal - unit will not fire. Unit aligns rear to enemy unit and jockeys lots (bit of a dance where it looks like unit is trying to form line, rear to enemy) but mortar doesn't deploy or shoot.

smith

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I have observed the same with the M109, if it can has LOS to a tank, it will not directly engage with the howitzer.

(I haven't ascertained if it will engage indirectly through the call for fire menu.)

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