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Challenger 2 feedback


Charlie0A

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However older Rh120/L44 guns during modernization of whole Leopard 2 tanks, require some upgrades and modifications (mostly to recoil mechanism) to be capable to fire more modern rounds like DM53.

As for Soviet guns, AFAIK these are L48 not L52.

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Aaaaaaaaaaargh! But thank you for the information. So I guess the only thing to do is to make a note of the official designation of the gun and look up the exact spec somewhere?

Its more a question of context.

The "Royal Ordnance L7 105mm" is a reference to the legendary tank gun, hopefully it would be pretty clear that the gun barrel was longer than "L7" (7 x 105mm = 735mm). :)

Its just another case of jargon (all sorts, not just military) being situationaly dependent.

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Interesting thing about L7 tough.

The US M68 gun is mostly reffered as US version of L7 gun. However in reality it is a hybrid gun, breach assembly is from experimental T254E2 gun designed in US, which had interchangable barrel with British X15E8 which was L7 prototype designation.

So M68 is T254E2 breach with X15E8 barrel. The reason why X15E8 barrel was choosen is because of bore evacuator position, that on T254E2 barrel was concentric, while X15E8 had eccentric thus it permitted greated gun depression.

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[quote name=Gibsonm;258324The "Royal Ordnance L7 105mm" is a reference to the legendary tank gun' date=' hopefully it would be pretty clear that the gun barrel was longer than "L7" (7 x 105mm = 735mm). :)

Oh. I thought it might have been a carbine version. :clin:

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Don't waste your time on answering to comments written by fanboys. :|

Hehe.." can engage a target the size of a football from 3 miles away". :-D

Of course you can engage it, question is: can engage successful :-P

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Well, a safe is significantly smaller then an AFV, so 3 misses at 900m ...8-)

...wich is bigger than a football @4828m. :icon_frown:

The ball (~220mm in diameter) @4828m represents 4,55 x 10^(-2) mils.

The safe (~1m by 0,5m) @900m represents 1,11mils by 0,56 mils.

The commentator should have said the Challenger 2 should be able to engage targets the size of soccer field's central circle (~1,24 mils @4828m) from 3 mils aways. :wink:

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so you have

L28 penetrator with a length of 650mm mv of 1670m/s = 510mm p0 in SB.

compared to:

M829 penetrator with a length of 500mm mv 1670m/s = 600mm p0 in SB.

nothing to see here, move along...

How much more penetration would be likely if the L28 mv was closer to 1845m/s? I don't have a clue about such magic and fairy dust.

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How much more penetration would be likely if the L28 mv was closer to 1845m/s? I don't have a clue about such magic and fairy dust.

FWIW, we are in the process of gathering more data about the L28, and by extension, the L30, at the moment. It will take some time but we are trying to be very thorough. :bigsmile:

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It doesn't seem credible for a 'war-round'. 95m/s faster than DM53, fired from a rifled barrel of similar length.

(This is *more* than the difference between L44 and L55 barrels firing DM53 (~80m/s)).

It is conceivable that a long-range 'prac' round might use such a high V0 to "match" distant trajectories with a much lighter round that decelerates faster, but there would be a significant cost in wear.

Even if this fantastic velocity were accepted, it would increase penetration only by ~10% over the assumed value at 'around' ~1670m/s.

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How much more penetration would be likely if the L28 mv was closer to 1845m/s? I don't have a clue about such magic and fairy dust.

There's neither magic nor fairy dust involved. We're engineers.

Steel Beasts uses the Lanz-Odermatt equation to determine the initial perforation limit for a projectile striking at a given velocity (and we're fitting the air drag parameters to match the firing tables out to practical engagement ranges (so in the case of APFSDS rounds it'll work reasonably accurate out to two or three times that range, and I think that we're deleting non-artillery rounds at 10,000m to save computation time).

So, if you happen to know the necessary parameters a variation of the impact velocity will quickly reveal how much of an effect this has.

Unfortunately, knowing "the necessary parameters" is notoriously difficult since the exact figures are usually secret. So you have to work with estimates. Sometimes it's easier, in the case of the L27/L28 it has turned out to be more of a challenge. I'm confident that we'll tackle this one, sooner or later.

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Was your research also informed by what was known about the L11A5 used by the Chieftain and the Challenger 1? Though I acknowledge that its within the realm of possibility that the same round fired from an L11 and a the L30 would be like going from the L/44 to the L/55 using the same round, but I'm curious about the performance figures for the older gun.

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... I think that we're deleting non-artillery rounds at 10,000m to save computation time).

It's be a while since I checked, but back when SB 3 came out me and dta delta tried to find out how far out we could hit targets, and he won with a 21870 meter kill from a Leo 2E with DM53 rounds: http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=20038&highlight=range&page=7

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Okay. So maybe the limit got lifted for all rounds. Although I have to say that we don't vouch for accurate ballistics beyond the first six or seven kilometers range for non-artillery rounds.

Not that I think you expected that, just sayin'...

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