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Organizing weekly "hardcore" SB mission

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Your mission concept certainly sounds better-developed than mine. Any chance I could edit your mission to throw in a Leo2 variant, M2/M3, and a CV90 variant?

Well you'd have to add more triggers, but I guess so.

Will send you a copy.

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I would have much less of an issue with enemy map updates if SPOTREPs were queued and received only after an appropriate delay and with the possibility of substantial error.

I wonder if something like the "Enemy intel of position = rough" option in the mission editor could be transplanted as an option to in-game map updates.

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Well you can have events triggered to generate text in the scrolling text area - people need to read it though.

So region around Town X

Region linked to event Event = enemy tanks in Town X generates message "sounds of heavy tracked vehicles, likely tanks vicinity Town X"

So if the condition is satisfied (i.e. tanks drive into Town X) a suitable message comes up on scrolling text area.

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Your mission concept certainly sounds better-developed than mine. Any chance I could edit your mission to throw in a Leo2 variant, M2/M3, and a CV90 variant?
Well you'd have to add more triggers, but I guess so.

Will send you a copy.

PM sent.

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"Fair" has nothing to do with it.:) Consider this example:

I think you greatly underestimated Force XXI. While not perfect by any means, it is much faster disseminating blueforce and Redforce information throughout the vehicles so equipped. Heck, a private could have sent up an old primitive EPLRS spot report in less than 60 seconds. Now maybe i've been away from the force too long and things have changed. But the last time we participated in a Force on Force against a Brigade from Ft. Hood, all they had to do was laze one of our vehicles. Two options came from this: 1. Based on "Known" locations of Blue forces the object is immediately classified as unknown and the gunner/commander could change it to hostile within seconds. 2. As you said objects could manually be input into the system but if memory serves me correctly anything object manually input would have a underscore beneath its icon or something like that.

As far as shacking up grid coord's, the laser provides 8-10 digit grids to anything with a clean lase. That coord is derived from calculating range to target and azimuth based upon your own coord from internal GPS. For example, M6 Linebackers had three GPS units. One tied to the laser, one for our ADA network to utilize slew-to-cue and one for the driver. I could laze an ojbect and with the press of a button send that to a arty unit within 3-5 Seconds. Alebit this is perfect battlefield conditions which rarely happens when SHTF but the technology and capability has been out for ages. Not trying to run your sessions, that was fun. Just pointing out that at least in my opinion map updates could simulate Drone, AWACS, JSTARs, TADL-B, Force XXI or some other technology that western forces have. Not to mention Kiowa scouts, CAV Scouts etc..... Wasnt anything serious just a suggestion that would eliminate radio chatter and net confusion for the Commander.

You could jump into any vehicle I'm in anytime...... heck it's fun to have multiple folks trying to stay alive.

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"Fair" has nothing to do with it.:) Consider this example:

I think you greatly underestimated Force XXI. While not perfect by any means, it is much faster disseminating blueforce and Redforce information throughout the vehicles so equipped. Heck, a private could have sent up an old primitive EPLRS spot report in less than 60 seconds. Now maybe i've been away from the force too long and things have changed. But the last time we participated in a Force on Force against a Brigade from Ft. Hood, all they had to do was laze one of our vehicles. Two options came from this: 1. Based on "Known" locations of Blue forces the object is immediately classified as unknown and the gunner/commander could change it to hostile within seconds. 2. As you said objects could manually be input into the system but if memory serves me correctly anything object manually input would have a underscore beneath its icon or something like that.

As far as shacking up grid coord's, the laser provides 8-10 digit grids to anything with a clean lase. That coord is derived from calculating range to target and azimuth based upon your own coord from internal GPS. For example, M6 Linebackers had three GPS units. One tied to the laser, one for our ADA network to utilize slew-to-cue and one for the driver. I could laze an ojbect and with the press of a button send that to a arty unit within 3-5 Seconds. Alebit this is perfect battlefield conditions which rarely happens when SHTF but the technology and capability has been out for ages. Not trying to run your sessions, that was fun. Just pointing out that at least in my opinion map updates could simulate Drone, AWACS, JSTARs, TADL-B, Force XXI or some other technology that western forces have. Not to mention Kiowa scouts, CAV Scouts etc..... Wasnt anything serious just a suggestion that would eliminate radio chatter and net confusion for the Commander.

You could jump into any vehicle I'm in anytime...... heck it's fun to have multiple folks trying to stay alive.

There's a lot to say about this very interesting subject, but I'm busy at work right now. To sum things up in a phrase, Google "Objective Peach."

If anyone wants a shortcut, see this.

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I was stationed at Ft. Stewart from July 90-96 and again from 97-Sep 2003. I was attached to 4/64 Armor and 3/69 Armor my entire time in 24th and 3rd Inf Div. I participated in Desert Hammer VI, Roving Sands and Force XXI trials from 94-97 but missed out on EXFOR. We also tested various systems at JRTC against a Brigade from Hood. So I'm not just pulling internet articles.

When Col Marcone attacked OBJ Peach, he was minus one company because they were attached to my battery A 1-3 ADA to attack, capture and hold OBJ Jenkins which lasted 4 days.

Not everyone suffered the communications blackout as TF 3/69 did. At OBJ Jenkins the system worked just fine for calling in arty by lazing and spot reports. I dont think it will ever be a perfect system, but the system does work. The biggest factor is the Army deciding on exactly which system to use and stick with. Or as the article stated, so much information was received up top that they were bogged down and could never push information out to the Brigade cells which push even further to Battalion and Squadron TOCS. ADA unit vehicles don't operate entirely that way and during OIF the systems installed were nothing like FORCE XXI trials.

As far I know other than ADA vehicles, none of the tanks and brads and Tocs had a down link from J STARS, TAD L-B, or the theater ADA cell. Heck we never even talked to Patriot or Air Force LNOs. Seems to me it was a human failure, not a issue of faulty software or inadequate tactical networks.

Good read though. Marcone was a great Commander and the Speed and Power and Tusker battalions in my opinion are the two Greatest Tank Battalions on the Planet :).

If you have a @mail.mil address or if you are in JPAS I can tell you where it did work successfully other than OBJ Jenkins.

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Yep, another good experience, although we were defeated for the second week in a row. Additional thoughts here.

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We had less than usual attendance for the mission yesterday, so we scrubbed the "Red Decision Point Attack" mission in favor of a smaller mission, "Battle for Ljusnan Valley." Our force, consisting of 8 x Strv-122, 3 x CV90, and breaching assets, was tasked to advance along a river valley and gain support-by-fire positions to support the main battalion attack. Opposing us was an enemy mechanized company consisting of BMP-2s and T-80Us.

The mission witnessed a good display of auftragstaktik by 2nd and 3rd platoons, constituting the western prong of our attack. Encountering little enemy resistance, they requested permission to advance when the eastern prong was bogged down by enemy mines and artillery fire. Desite heavy losses in a nasty ambush by T-80Us near the objective, they got sufficient forces onto the designated support-by-fire positions to earn a victory.

"Red Decision Point Attack" is being re-upped for next Saturday.

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We had less than usual attendance for the mission yesterday, so we scrubbed the "Red Decision Point Attack" mission in favor of a smaller mission, "Battle for Ljusnan Valley." Our force, consisting of 8 x Strv-122, 3 x CV90, and breaching assets, was tasked to advance along a river valley and gain support-by-fire positions to support the main battalion attack. Opposing us was an enemy mechanized company consisting of BMP-2s and T-80Us.

The mission witnessed a good display of auftragstaktik by 2nd and 3rd platoons, constituting the western prong of our attack. Encountering little enemy resistance, they requested permission to advance when the eastern prong was bogged down by enemy mines and artillery fire. Desite heavy losses in a nasty ambush by T-80Us near the objective, they got sufficient forces onto the designated support-by-fire positions to earn a victory.

"Red Decision Point Attack" is being re-upped for next Saturday.

Ghana vs germany yesterday. US vs germany on thursday...in short: football worldcup vs steelbeasts ;-)

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Humm. LoL

As someone that does not follow football or world cup much this is interesting. I thought that all and Nationalistic fervor was legitimate. Turns out it is just about which Nation Has the deepest pockets and best scouts to find talent anywhere in the world, and call it their own. I thought it was more like the Olympics.

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Well maybe the Olympics is not a good comparison.

How many where scouted and made citizens for the specific purpose of playing a sport, and which Nations are most guilty of this practice?

How many happened to be foreign born then became citizens who already had or discovered they had a talent at a particular sport. Then worked their way up the ranks to achieve it.

I'll cork it before I start a war or bring the thread way off topic.

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Another entertaining mission. And we won! What is always a plus.

As always, I found extremely difficult to know the position of the enemy without map updates (this is not a criticicism, I really enjoy the added difficulty). At the beginning of the scenario I detected a couple of enemy units far away, probably the BMPs that I destroyed later, and was completely unable to determine their position. More of a shame, as they are probably the ones that called the artillery on top of me.

Also, the absence of a compass in the tank makes it even more difficult. How do you manage when doing the real thing?

I am trying to think of a way to train this alone when offline, because clearly it needs practice, practice and then, more practice.

Thanks MDF.

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Also, the absence of a compass in the tank makes it even more difficult. How do you manage when doing the real thing?

Thanks MDF.

IRL - Just do a "map to ground".

If you want finer detail, get the Gunner to lase key points (the Bridge is at GR on the Map, I'm 1,500m from the Bridge from the LRF, etc.).

Also whilst not specifically a compass, you have an added aid in SB, being the red indicator gives you the orientation of the hull, gun/turret and your view (with North being the top of the diagram).

Edited by Gibsonm

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Also, the absence of a compass in the tank makes it even more difficult. How do you manage when doing the real thing?

I am trying to think of a way to train this alone when offline, because clearly it needs practice, practice and then, more practice.

IDK about the real thing, but when I'm playing SB, I always try to be aware of exactly where I am on the map and which direction I'm facing. As Mark mentioned, the little red "tank compass" in the lower right corner helps with that. As a commander, I'm constantly jumping back and forth between the map and 3D world. After that, as Mark also pointed out, it's a simple matter of lasing/estimating range.

Then you can give a simple contact report to your superior stating something like: "One alpha has spotted three enemy T-72s 1500 meters northwest of my position moving left to right. Unable to engage at this time. Over."

Your superior can then locate your call sign on the map and quickly deduce where the enemy is based on your report and decide on a further course of action. There's usually no need for precise positions, unless you're a FO or something. Most times, by the time your superior gets around to addressing your call, the enemy may have moved several km.

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Your superior can then locate your call sign on the map ...

Well I'd differ there because unless you are playing a small mission your "call sign" might be hard to locate (esp. if you are using a format you or your superior aren't familiar with).

For example (perhaps a bad one) last week's TGIF had lots of units and trying to figure out which blue icon is "you" would have taken some time.

IMHO, at least give your superior the grid square of the contact if you can't work a 6 figure grid.

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Ghana vs germany yesterday. US vs germany on thursday...in short: football worldcup vs steelbeasts ;-)

Thankfully (for Tactical Saturday), the World Cup happens only every 4 years.

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IRL - Just do a "map to ground".

If you want finer detail, get the Gunner to lase key points (the Bridge is at GR on the Map, I'm 1,500m from the Bridge from the LRF, etc.).

Also whilst not specifically a compass, you have an added aid in SB, being the red indicator gives you the orientation of the hull, gun/turret and your view (with North being the top of the diagram).

Yes, when ENY map updates are disabled, I use a combination of the "tank compass" in the lower right together with LRF ranging to determine the position of enemy units. It also helps to know the maximum range of the fire control computer in the specific vehicle, so that when you get an invalid range return, at least you know the ENY is a minimum of x meters distant.

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