Components List

[MDF]

Is there a (public) master list anywhere of all the components that each vehicle has? Or at least a list of all components that any vehicle might have?

[Gibsonm]

Not quite sure what you mean by "components", but if it means things that can be "broken" does the list of things that can be damaged satisfy the "might have" list issue?

Edited May 13, 2014 by Gibsonm

[MDF]

Not quite sure what you mean by "components" but if does the list of things that can be damaged satisfy the "might have" list issue?

Yes, I was thinking of a list of the damage-able components (main gun, tracks, GPS, suspension, etc.) I also note that there are things that can be damaged that are not listed among the damage-able items in the mission editor. Road wheels are one example that comes to mind, but there are probably others.

[MDF]

Yesterday was the first time I looked closely at the damage-able components aspect of the mission editor. A number of things seemed odd to me. For example:

1. What is "Stab. overheated"? Every vehicle has this option, so "Stab." must mean something other than "stabilization", correct?
   
2. Why do Biber and MT-55 have a slew of armament-related components, such as GPS, GAS, laser rangefinder, dynamic lead, etc.?
   
3. Several vehicles have periscope-related components (peri-electronics/control unit/azimuth sensor) but no apparent commander's sight. E.g., 2S1, M1064A3, FOV90, CV90/40-B, 1.2t Technical-T/60mm Mortar, GTK Boxer, M977 HEMTT, Ural 4320 fueler.
   
4. Conversely, some vehicles have a commander's sight, but no peri components, e.g., Leo2A5A2-DK, PT-76, BMP-3, Marder 1A3, Ulan.
   
5. PRP-3 has ammo-storage component but no main gun or missile launcher.
   
6. What is "drift"? If it means a main gun out of alignment with the FCS, why do the Ural 4320 Fueler, civilian ambulance 4x4-U, Biber, and MT-55 have this component?
   
7. Many vehicles have a "searchlight" component, but no apparent searchlights. I understand that some combat vehicles (e.g., numerous early T-XX MBTs, M60 series) have IR searchlights, but what does this component mean when it is part of, for example, the Leo2A5A2-DK, 2S3 (but not 2S1), or FOV-90?
   
8. Why does the M9666 HMMWV have a ballistic computer?
   
9. What is the "automatic fire" component, and why does, e.g., a M966 HMMWV have one?
   
10. Why does the ASLAV-25 have a missile launcher component?
    
11. What is the difference between the turret and turret drive components?
    

Signed,

Captain Confused.

Edited May 14, 2014 by MDF

[Gibsonm]

Pretty sure its a global grab bag of things that could go wrong and if they don't apply to that vehicle then they wont work when activated.

Why generate a new custom list for every new vehicle if a single global list does the job?

If you are silly enough to say damage "Troops" for a M1 (can't recall off hand if it has that listed or not) and it doesn't work because it has no troops then it doesn't matter.

Its probably also implied that as a Mission Designer if are breaking "stuff" that you know which pieces of "stuff" vehicle A has compared to vehicle B.

[MDF]

Pretty sure its a global grab bag of things that could go wrong and if they don't apply to that vehicle then they wont work when activated.

Why generate a new custom list for every new vehicle if a single global list does the job?

If you are silly enough to say damage "Troops" for a M1 (can't recall off hand if it has that listed or not) and it doesn't work because it has no troops then it doesn't matter.

Its probably also implied that as a Mission Designer if are breaking "stuff" that you know which pieces of "stuff" vehicle A has compared to vehicle B.

I suspect there's much truth to this, but it's not the case that every vehicle has the same component manifest. A few items (fuel leak, stab. overheated, suspension) are ubiquitous, but in other respects there is considerable variance between vehicles. I imagine that some of the anomalies I noted are due to inadvertence, but I wonder if some components are used to model things somewhat different than their name suggests. For example, to deploy the bridge on MT-55 or Biber, you press the "fire" key. Perhaps that's why these vehicles have a damage-able "main gun", although this theory doesn't readily explain all the other fire-control related components they possess.

[Gibsonm]

For example, to deploy the bridge on MT-55 or Biber, you press the "fire" key.

Well I'd argue you press the "space bar".

Its just for tanks and vehicles with a main armament its mapped by default to fire the main gun, for the bridgelayers it deploys the bridge, for the MICLIC it fires that charge, etc.

So arguably its mapped to activate the "primary system" of whichever platform you are in and changes with respect to view or role.

[Rotareneg]

Why does the M9666 HMMWV have a ballistic computer?

What is the difference between the turret and turret drive components?

You can still operate the turret in manual mode if the "turret drive" is damaged, but it's locked in place if the "turret" is damaged.

[TankHunter]

IIRC stab overheated refers specifically to the T-72, some makers produced better quality products than others. The ones we have are mid level quality. Stabilization overheats if "over used", but at least the components do their job.

[Rotareneg]

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php/T-72M1#Peculiarities_and_Warnings :

WARNING: Leaving the stabilization on continuously for about 50-60 minutes will cause the hydraulics overheat and a loss in stabilization. To avoid this, the gunner should turn off stabilization until contact is imminent. The AI gunner will manage this properly on its own.

[MDF]

You can still operate the turret in manual mode if the "turret drive" is damaged, but it's locked in place if the "turret" is damaged.

Aha! That makes sense.

Edited May 16, 2014 by MDF

[MDF]

IIRC stab overheated refers specifically to the T-72, some makers produced better quality products than others. The ones we have are mid level quality. Stabilization overheats if "over used", but at least the components do their job.

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php/T-72M1#Peculiarities_and_Warnings :

I was aware of the stabilization overheat issue in the T-72, but every vehicle has a "stab. overheated" component. Moreover, this component appears in the sequence of components relating to automotive parts of the vehicle (it comes after "Engine" and before "Suspension"). So, I'm wondering if it means something else other than turret/gun stabilization.

[MDF]

Well I'd argue you press the "space bar".

Its just for tanks and vehicles with a main armament its mapped by default to fire the main gun, for the bridgelayers it deploys the bridge, for the MICLIC it fires that charge, etc.

So arguably its mapped to activate the "primary system" of whichever platform you are in and changes with respect to view or role.

Fair point, but I'm still wondering why the bridgelayers also have the entire coterie of FCS components found only in "high end" combat vehicles.

[DarkLabor]

Fair point, but I'm still wondering why the bridgelayers also have the entire coterie of FCS components found only in "high end" combat vehicles.

Do you even read people responding to your questions?

Pretty sure its a global grab bag of things that could go wrong and if they don't apply to that vehicle then they wont work when activated.

Why generate a new custom list for every new vehicle if a single global list does the job?

If you are silly enough to say damage "Troops" for a M1 (can't recall off hand if it has that listed or not) and it doesn't work because it has no troops then it doesn't matter.

Its probably also implied that as a Mission Designer if are breaking "stuff" that you know which pieces of "stuff" vehicle A has compared to vehicle B.

[MDF]

Pretty sure its a global grab bag of things that could go wrong and if they don't apply to that vehicle then they wont work when activated.

Why generate a new custom list for every new vehicle if a single global list does the job?

If you are silly enough to say damage "Troops" for a M1 (can't recall off hand if it has that listed or not) and it doesn't work because it has no troops then it doesn't matter.

Its probably also implied that as a Mission Designer if are breaking "stuff" that you know which pieces of "stuff" vehicle A has compared to vehicle B.

Do you even read people responding to your questions?

Yes, I do. Do you?

I suspect there's much truth to this, but it's not the case that every vehicle has the same component manifest. A few items (fuel leak, stab. overheated, suspension) are ubiquitous, but in other respects there is considerable variance between vehicles. I imagine that some of the anomalies I noted are due to inadvertence, but I wonder if some components are used to model things somewhat different than their name suggests. For example, to deploy the bridge on MT-55 or Biber, you press the "fire" key. Perhaps that's why these vehicles have a damage-able "main gun", although this theory doesn't readily explain all the other fire-control related components they possess.

[DarkLabor]

Yes, I do. Do you?

Sure.

Since the development is made under a certain time constraint (plus you're not sure if it was made by the same programmer), it's not surprising to see that kind of things.

You know the exceptions never make the rule...

On another point, Pro PE is intended to be used by professionnals with a minimum knowledge. If it was just a consumer version, that kind of observation would have been much more relevant due to the fact that the end user wouldn't be supposed to know the minimum required.

[Gibsonm]

Fair point, but I'm still wondering why the bridgelayers also have the entire coterie of FCS components found only in "high end" combat vehicles.

I think its because there maybe several "damage sets" to match the respective vehicle "type".

Along these lines:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showpost.php?p=221716&postcount=16

From memory the MT-55 and AVLB are considered "tanks" for the logic conditions and therefore get the "tank" set.

Yes confirmed (at least in 2.654), cf Rows 26 and 92 of the spreadsheet.

[MDF]

I think its because there maybe several "damage sets" to match the respective vehicle "type".

Along these lines:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showpost.php?p=221716&postcount=16

From memory the MT-55 and AVLB are considered "tanks" for the logic conditions and therefore get the "tank" set.

Yes confirmed (at least in 2.654), cf Rows 26 and 92 of the spreadsheet.

You could be right about that.....maybe every "tank" type vehicle receives the complete list of components by default, and then the developers are supposed to weed out the unneeded ones but just never did for the Biber/MT-55 (or, perhaps more likely, never adjusted the code that populates the options/damage menu when a vehicle is right-clicked in the editor).

There does still seem to be much variance among vehicle types which clearly seems to be by design (e.g., most vehicles have grenade launchers, except T-55 and T-62), and some which is more mysterious -- like Nos. 3 and 4 in my second post above.

[Gibsonm]

and then the developers are supposed to weed out the unneeded ones but just never did for the Biber/MT-55 (or, perhaps more likely, never adjusted the code that populates the options/damage menu when a vehicle is right-clicked in the editor).

Why continue to put the burden on them?

A scenario designer who knows their stuff, knows which things/"components" apply to which vehicle, and if you damage something that the specific vehicle doesn't have there is no impact anyway - its not hard.