Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States

[GaryOwen]

The US had broken the Japanese diplomatic communications code. We were actively monitoring Japanese diplomatic attempts to have Moscow broker a conditional surrender that would have allowed the Japanese military aristocracy to remain in place. The military aristocracy was effectively in control of the government and wasn't as concerned about the effects of continued fighting on civilians as it was about maintaining its powerbase, the imperial army. The first bomb was dropped and that did not induce surrender. Stalin positively responded to the Japanese diplomacy and the first bomb by invading Manchuria a couple days later. We dropped the second bomb. The Red Army sliced through Manchuria like a hot knife through warm butter. No more imperial army, the Japanese surrendered. We knew what was going on in Moscow the whole time because we were listening to the Japanese ambassador's messages home.

[Homer]

Russia was approached under the assumption they would be the least belligerent among the allies because of their neutrality pact. The attempted coupe de tat in between the bombs probably had something to do with the delay of a response. If there was a direct line to the Emperor, it would have been over before the first bomb. I think the 4 previous years of fighting had a lot more to bring about the surrender than the bombs or anything Russia did.

My problem with the series is the style, more than the substance. It was clear who/what they wanted you to perceive as good/bad. Just present the facts of an event and use commentary to clarify, not as an attempt to manipulate my emotions. There was plenty not to like about Truman but using facts that only support a specific narrative is not what I consider history.

[12Alfa]

As with most media one has to do some digging to really understand what is going on. Take the nightly news Russia evades Ukraine. Well it looks bad, however if one digs into to this it's not what it seems.

Some elements of unknown origin have caused issues to a small part of that country.With no uniforms,and masks the media runs rampant with stories. The US says its Russia (and who would know more about causing turmoil in another country if we look at the track record in S America) but in the end we still don't really know.What is known is that "Biden's Son, Kerry Family Friend Join Ukrainian Gas Producer's Board". Will this have any effect on anything????

Shooting down with A/A weponds does point to a country (whom would gain....) of the Hip by separatists (read civies) is not likely.

So the film has to be taken as a whole some with some sort of research by the viewer, because things are rarely what they are portrayed as, especially in the media.

It's true that he puts his spin on the film, but other than Sir David Attenboroug who dosen't?

[Homer]

I wish you had mentioned the spin when you started this thread. What I saw in the series was above normal levels. At one point, they showed a picture of Stalin holding a laughing baby (even though I thought it was funny that it was only a painting and not a photo). Really?

So the US has shaped its foreign policy on Ukraine to ensure the VP's son gets a job? Out of all the possibilities that exist, this is the most plausible explanation?

[jebs]

Having lived in South & South-East Ukraine for a while & being fluent in Russian, I can assuredly say that most of the "rebels" who are supposed to be Ukrainian natives sure do speak Russian with a far-away slower Baltic accent that's not at all close to the faster paced Southern & South-Eastern Russian accent.

Those of us who have lived there for a while have no doubt that Putin is the one pushing the buttons there. We don't need to rely on spin from either side.

[12Alfa]

I wish you had mentioned the spin when you started this thread. What I saw in the series was above normal levels. At one point, they showed a picture of Stalin holding a laughing baby (even though I thought it was funny that it was only a painting and not a photo). Really?

So the US has shaped its foreign policy on Ukraine to ensure the VP's son gets a job? Out of all the possibilities that exist, this is the most plausible explanation?

Spin, yes its good. Like when it was used by someone we all know with a Kuwait girl who worked in a hospital and saw Iraqis take baby incubators and left the babies to die. This "Spin" was used to sell BS to the world. Turned out that the girl was the Kuwait's ambassador daughter that was never in the area where this happened or reported to.

The spin is all around us.I usually ask myself, who is going to benefit from this, the answer is usually the real story.

So the US has shaped ...

No, however we see that there is links (once again) to energy and the US:wink2:. Now the question is this coincidence, along with Nato wanting more eastern countries to join and by default BUY more arms ( from guess who:wink2:)? Why sure it is:heu:

Cause and effect in play? Hummmm. We will wait this out and see what happens.

[12Alfa]

Having lived in South & South-East Ukraine for a while & being fluent in Russian, I can assuredly say that most of the "rebels" who are supposed to be Ukrainian natives sure do speak Russian with a far-away slower Baltic accent that's not at all close to the faster paced Southern & South-Eastern Russian accent.

Those of us who have lived there for a while have no doubt that Putin is the one pushing the buttons there. We don't need to rely on spin from either side.

Hopefully with the new PM it will work it's way to a peaceful future.:luxhello:

[Ssnake]

For the sake of upholding the forum rule of No Political Debate Here, this thread is now closed.