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Tanker Books/Novels


glcanon
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Aha. Thanks, Demo.

In Tin Soldiers, at least the American tanks take losses. Compared to what else I've read (mostly Clancy) involving American tanks, you'd get the impression that a single M1A1HA can fight off the entirety of 3rd Shock Army, shortly before counterattacking all the way to the Ural mountains.

I agree that the "Tigers" defeating that size of a force (what was it, deuce divisions or sommat?) essentially singlehandedly is a bit bullshit-tacular, buuut who wants to read a story about the good guys being overrun and slaughtered en-masse? ;)

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  • 2 weeks later...
Aha. Thanks, Demo.

In Tin Soldiers, at least the American tanks take losses. Compared to what else I've read (mostly Clancy) involving American tanks, you'd get the impression that a single M1A1HA can fight off the entirety of 3rd Shock Army, shortly before counterattacking all the way to the Ural mountains.

I agree that the "Tigers" defeating that size of a force (what was it, deuce divisions or sommat?) essentially singlehandedly is a bit bullshit-tacular, buuut who wants to read a story about the good guys being overrun and slaughtered en-masse? ;)

The "bad" guys?? ;)

And I have to defend Clancy: reading "Red Storm Rising" I never got the impression he was too overly in love with the Abrams tank. On the contrary, the Americans had to pay a heavy price in all the battles he described.

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Ive recently started reading fact-based books to get an idea on design and uses. The books Ive read so far are:

- Tanks & Armoured Fighting Vehicles Visual Encyclopedia by Park lane Books

- Chariots of fire by Philip Kaplan

- Vital Guide: Modern Tanks and Armoured Fighting Vehicles by Simon Dunstan

(though Ive lost this book and want to buy it again)

Im looking to read and/or buy:

- Jane's Tank Recognition Guide (2000 update)

- The World Encyclopedia of Tanks by George Forty

- The Encyclopedia of Tanks & Armoured Fighting Vehicles: Fromm World War I to the Present Day by Chris Bishop

- Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank 1987-2006 (New Vanguard) (Paperback) by Simon Dunstan

- Chieftain Main Battle Tank 1965-2003 (New Vanguard) (Paperback) by Simon Dunstan

- Centurion Universal Tank 1943-2003 (New Vanguard) (Paperback) by Simon Dunstan

- British Mark I Tank 1916 (New Vanguard) (Paperback) by David Fletcher

- Tanks Inside Out by Michael E.Haskew

- Haynes Tiger Tank manual Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger 1 Ausf.E (Sdkfz 181) Model by David Fletcher

is there anymore I should read to get a general idea of internal workings, info, role and other such information?

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Ive recently started reading fact-based books to get an idea on design and uses. The books Ive read so far are:

- Tanks & Armoured Fighting Vehicles Visual Encyclopedia by Park lane Books

- Chariots of fire by Philip Kaplan

- Vital Guide: Modern Tanks and Armoured Fighting Vehicles by Simon Dunstan

(though Ive lost this book and want to buy it again)

Im looking to read and/or buy:

- Jane's Tank Recognition Guide (2000 update)

- The World Encyclopedia of Tanks by George Forty

- The Encyclopedia of Tanks & Armoured Fighting Vehicles: Fromm World War I to the Present Day by Chris Bishop

- Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank 1987-2006 (New Vanguard) (Paperback) by Simon Dunstan

- Chieftain Main Battle Tank 1965-2003 (New Vanguard) (Paperback) by Simon Dunstan

- Centurion Universal Tank 1943-2003 (New Vanguard) (Paperback) by Simon Dunstan

- British Mark I Tank 1916 (New Vanguard) (Paperback) by David Fletcher

- Tanks Inside Out by Michael E.Haskew

- Haynes Tiger Tank manual Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger 1 Ausf.E (Sdkfz 181) Model by David Fletcher

is there anymore I should read to get a general idea of internal workings, info, role and other such information?

You could try Salamander publishing books on the Centurion & the Cheiftain.

They go into the Design and Development, Layout, Life In Service, etc.

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Ive recently started reading fact-based books to get an idea on design and uses. The books Ive read so far are:

- Tanks & Armoured Fighting Vehicles Visual Encyclopedia by Park lane Books

- Chariots of fire by Philip Kaplan

- Vital Guide: Modern Tanks and Armoured Fighting Vehicles by Simon Dunstan

(though Ive lost this book and want to buy it again)

Im looking to read and/or buy:

- Jane's Tank Recognition Guide (2000 update)

- The World Encyclopedia of Tanks by George Forty

- The Encyclopedia of Tanks & Armoured Fighting Vehicles: Fromm World War I to the Present Day by Chris Bishop

- Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank 1987-2006 (New Vanguard) (Paperback) by Simon Dunstan

- Chieftain Main Battle Tank 1965-2003 (New Vanguard) (Paperback) by Simon Dunstan

- Centurion Universal Tank 1943-2003 (New Vanguard) (Paperback) by Simon Dunstan

- British Mark I Tank 1916 (New Vanguard) (Paperback) by David Fletcher

- Tanks Inside Out by Michael E.Haskew

- Haynes Tiger Tank manual Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger 1 Ausf.E (Sdkfz 181) Model by David Fletcher

is there anymore I should read to get a general idea of internal workings, info, role and other such information?

For Chieftain info there is the book "Chieftain" by Rob Griffin, he also has

done a very good book on the Conqueror.

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Well so far Ive downloaded:

- Jane's Tank Recognition Guide (2000 update) by Christopher F.Fost

- Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank 1987-2006 (New Vanguard) (Paperback) by Simon Dunstan

- Chieftain Main Battle Tank 1965-2003 (New Vanguard) (Paperback) by Simon Dunstan

- Centurion Universal Tank 1943-2003 (New Vanguard) (Paperback) by Simon Dunstan

- British Mark I Tank 1916 (New Vanguard) (Paperback) by David Fletcher

David Fletcher holds alot of water when it comes to tank history. Hes on alot of tank related documentries on discovery channel. That and working at Bovington Tank museum kind of helps him out too lol. Im not so sure about Simon Dunstan though, he does produce some decent books but whether they're accurate on info is another question.

5 more bookes left to get

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Main Battle Tank, by Niall Edworthy,

Tells the story of the Scots DG Battle group, in action around Basra 2003,

A very good read, and tells how the Challengers were used in an urban war, which the crews had never trained for.

My only complaint would be that it would benefit from more maps (it has two) and maybe some more pictures (it has eight pages) but never the less a very good book.

This is another good one for you Fletch.

56e83c9f1d23b_5F9415C2-972A-4FAB-99A3-7B

56e83c9f1d23b_5F9415C2-972A-4FAB-99A3-7B

Edited by Crusty
Butter fingers
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I have found virtually no book on (contemporary) military history that has maps in sufficient quantity and quality. What's wrong with the editors? Why not at least put links to a supplemental web page into these books if the page dimensions and print costs are prohibitive.

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Main Battle Tank, by Niall Edworthy,

Tells the story of the Scots DG Battle group, in action around Basra 2003,

A very good read, and tells how the Challengers were used in an urban war, which the crews had never trained for.

My only complaint would be that it would benefit from more maps (it has two) and maybe some more pictures (it has eight pages) but never the less a very good book.

This is another good one for you Fletch.

Hmm, duly noted.

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I find it hard to believe that the tank crews of SDG had never trained for FIBUA.

It's utterly credible, and likely even. The question ultimately is how you want to deliver effective and useful training for your AFV crews in urban terrain. Do you do live training?

Live training is costly, and you can't actually train certain combat procedures for urban terrain properly with live tools. Most live training is laser based (like MILES and similar solutions). Lasers don't shoot through walls. For safety restrictions and cost limitations you can't fire live ammunition at real houses to train procedures like "forced entry". You need to haul equipment to a live training facility, handle accommodation for the troops, plan to rotate all units through such a training center - ideally before their deployment, which isn't always possible - and even if you can afford all this and if you can get your training schedule to match operational requirements, you still can't get past those limitations of laser based live training systems.

Constructive?

Doesn't help your AFV crews at all to get their procedures right.

Virtual.

It seems to be the only viable option, really. But where are the simulations that allow for the integration of mounted and dismounted infantry, armor and mech vehicles, in urban combat of at least large villages if not medium to large cities, with partially destructible buildings?

They just don't exist, period. It's an incredible engineering challenge, and I can tell you, the solutions still are in the making.

And as long as suitable training tools don't exist, well, the training doesn't take place, no matter how badly needed it may be. Add to that cultural resistance/doctrinal inertia. Before Basra and Fallujah it was accepted doctrinal wisdom that bringing tanks to a knife fight in highly restrictive terrain like urbanized areas was a folly as it would negate most of a modern tank's advantages (true) and make it more vulnerable (also true); experiences of the Israelis notwithstanding ("interesting, but an irrelevant aberration"). What the armored branch leaders forgot about was that even despite all these reasons tanks still were the most survivable weapon system with the highest firepower that could be used with precision, as long as they would be protected by friendly infantry. Therefore tankers simply have to accept that they are a needed element in urban combat, like it or not, and if they don't want to get entangled in this kind of a mess they will be considered an irrelevant element of the force structure.

This however means that armies are now accepting that they actually need training tools for mechanized operations in urban terrain. The nature of virtual simulations is however that it takes years to deliver something, especially if it is so radically different in the general requirements from established solutions as this.

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Main Battle Tank, by Niall Edworthy,

Tells the story of the Scots DG Battle group, in action around Basra 2003,

A very good read, and tells how the Challengers were used in an urban war, which the crews had never trained for.

My only complaint would be that it would benefit from more maps (it has two) and maybe some more pictures (it has eight pages) but never the less a very good book.

This is another good one for you Fletch.

Thanks crusty :) ill give that a gander, I found a PDF of that was set on getting the New vanguard books. Ill get that pdf though. I dont want to miss out.

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-snip-

Entirely valid, my mistake. The perception - not being a tanker myself - is that tankers, like Infanteers, would receive training in FIBUA before being considered fully qualified tankers. Whether or not they rehearsed their FISH and CHIPS drills prior to OIF is a different matter, and it was the (probably) erroneous perception of "haven't done it at all" versus "haven't done it recently" that drew my comment.

Though I can see, given that explanation, why any training in FIBUA would be considered of low value and simply not performed. I would prefer to have them learn how to cooperate with squaddies FISHing and CHIPSing, even if only their coaxials and pintle mounts are relevant due to the physical limitations of the simulation gear, because that's better than nothing. But of course, that's not how things work.

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Tanks in urban warfare...all the doctrine was already there in 1942-45, tried and battle-tested, mistakes erased and corrected. Only to be forgotten and neglected. Armies are strange.

It seems armies tend to get this condition called CRS syndrome- Can't Remember Sh*t.

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Does anyone know a good book that covers the M-60 combat experiences besides the "Duel" series?

I am also interested in the Israely Armour Operations in Sinai, Golan and Lebanon

I have recently read Heights of Courage and I have to say it is probably one of the best armour books I have ever read. I have also read Duel for the Golan which I also highly recommend it.

I would like to read some more about the Sinai and Lebanon combat experiences if there are any books avalaible about this.

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