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I noticed that the recent beta cured the early problem of AH-64's being able to hit with Hellfires without having to maintain LOS to the target. It looks like the fix has detrimentally affected the Hellfire's probabability of hit/kill in an unrealistic manner, however.

In SB version 3.019, I ran a test with a single AH-64 (with 8 Hellfires) firing at the flank of 3 stationary Leo2A5s at a range of 7-8 km. No air defense threat, clear weather, completely flat, featureless terrain, etc. For 48 Hellfires expended over six test runs, there were only 7 kills total. There were many complete misses

I ran the same test using version 3.011. Less than 48 Hellfires expended* resulted in 24 kills -- probably 4 times the lethality rate of the version 3.019 test.

Given that this test mission replicates "test range" conditions, one would expect that the hit rate would be in excess of 90%. The helos had clear LOS to the target at all times, so the version 3.019 fix should not have had any effect. Given the flank aspect of the target, one also would expect pK to be fairly high, but hits frequently did little damage (although, to be sure, some of the hits occurred on the Leos' well armored turret face).

Also, in this past weekend's TGIF game, the Blue Apache fired 9 Hellfires, and obtained only 2 hits (both on BMPs) -- only 1 of which resulted in a kill.

* In some of the six test runs, the AH-64 destroyed all three vehicles prior to expending their load of Hellfires.

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I noticed that the recent beta cured the early problem of AH-64's being able to hit with Hellfires without having to maintain LOS to the target. It looks like the fix has detrimentally affected the Hellfire's probabability of hit/kill in an unrealistic manner, however.

In SB version 3.019, I ran a test with a single AH-64 (with 8 Hellfires) firing at the flank of 3 stationary Leo2A5s at a range of 7-8 km. No air defense threat, clear weather, completely flat, featureless terrain, etc. For 48 Hellfires expended over six test runs, there were only 7 kills total. There were many complete misses

I ran the same test using version 3.011. Less than 48 Hellfires expended* resulted in 24 kills -- probably 4 times the lethality rate of the version 3.019 test.

Given that this test mission replicates "test range" conditions, one would expect that the hit rate would be in excess of 90%. The helos had clear LOS to the target at all times, so the version 3.019 fix should not have had any effect. Given the flank aspect of the target, one also would expect pK to be fairly high, but hits frequently did little damage (although, to be sure, some of the hits occurred on the Leos' well armored turret face).

Also, in this past weekend's TGIF game, the Blue Apache fired 9 Hellfires, and obtained only 2 hits (both on BMPs) -- only 1 of which resulted in a kill.

* In some of the six test runs, the AH-64 destroyed all three vehicles prior to expending their load of Hellfires.

Known issue...semi active laser homing...and infact many other guidance methods are not modeled yet

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Yes, this is a known issue. Basically, we updated the AGM-114C to behave more realistically in the sense that it is no longer a fire and forget missile, the helicopter must maintain a LOS to guide the missile to the target now because the missile is a laser homing type. The problem however is that this caused the AGM-114C to fly in a flat trajectory like a TOW, rather than a lob type trajectory and that is something that should be fixed in future versions. The AGM-114K is unaffected however, it is still fire and forget because it is radar homing and no changes were made to it (and it should still fly in the correct lob pattern).

What you were seeing in TGIF was a combination of a few things I am sure: 1) You were probably flying away after firing which caused the missile to break lock and miss, and 2) the missile was flying in the flat trajectory which was not achieving ideal hits on the target.

#1 will have to be learned, and #2 is the bug which we hope will be addressed soon.

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What type of Hellfires were you using in your test?

AGM-114C. To be candid, I had completely forgotten that the RF version of the missile also was modeled; otherwise, I would have mentioned the version in my initial post.

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What you were seeing in TGIF was a combination of a few things I am sure: 1) You were probably flying away after firing which caused the missile to break lock and miss, and 2) the missile was flying in the flat trajectory which was not achieving ideal hits on the target.

#1 will have to be learned, and #2 is the bug which we hope will be addressed soon.

Actually, as best I can tell from what I saw during the mission and in the AAR, the Apache was engaging from stationary BPs.

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Actually, as best I can tell from what I saw during the mission and in the AAR, the Apache was engaging from stationary BPs.

OK, well I was just guessing -- either way, if the target moved and LOS was broken then it would miss. This is the draw back of laser guided Hellfire.

But it doesn't matter, I am really just pointing out the difference now with the AGM-114C (fixed one thing and broke another). ;)

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V,

I haven't seen it lately but in the old days when you lazed a target there was a "+" on the F5 map view. Is there a way to incorporate something like this into the FIST vehicle or infantry FO team viewpoint. FIST vehicle lazes a target and if Apaches are in the scenario they can pop up and fire a laser only missile then seek cover/concealment again. The missile would then rely on the ability of the requesting vehicle to maintain laser lock. Same for Infantry FO teams. Basically similar to a GLID and copperhead shot. The fore-mentioned could simulate the Kiowa/Apache partnership

I imagine laser shots could be restricted in the support menu during design time like aircraft sorties. Say only three if desired.

LOL I love begging.

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The AGM-114K is unaffected however, it is still fire and forget because it is radar homing...

The AGM-114K is not fire and forget. It has a semi-active seeker just like all the earlier variants. It just works in a different part of the EM spectrum like you noted. The AGM-114L will be the first true fire and forget version because it will have a (not-semi) active seeker. It took HELLFIRE only 25+ years to live up to its acronym.

...caused the missile to break lock and miss...

It would irresponsible of me not to nitpick and mention that the AGM-114K is the first version designed with a capability to reacquire a target if the lock-on is lost. I am ignoring the fact that you were talking about C model.

P.S. Do you need numbers for the missile's flight trajectory?

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