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Kyle Harmse

Anti-ADS techniques, tactics and weapons

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Afternoon gents,

The way Trophy, Arena and other ADS systems are developing, I was wondering if any of you have any input in terms of how these systems may one day be defeated?

SAAB's LEDS-150 and Trophy supposedly have the capability to knock down even APFSDS rounds (by breaking their fins).

Some strategies I've been idly contemplating:

1) Defence saturation. I doubt even a fast reacting system is going to be able to shoot down 4 APFSDS rounds coming at it at once, should an entire platoon concentrate fire and fire at once. This of course requires very close coordination and control between vehicles. Or a cluster-munition warhead on an ATGM, that could work too. Or multiple air-bursting 40mm rounds going off on it. Etc.

2) Hardened rounds. Rounds could in theory be "hardened", either physically (tougher fins on APFSDS) or by equipping them with countermeasures. I imagine a radar-jamming head on an APFSDS isnt going to be cheap, but perhaps it could have a chaff dispenser of some kind?

3) Faster rounds. Faster "vampires", slower reaction time for the system, right? Electro-thermal 120mms, anyone? :clin: Obviously, this is a long-term technological advancement in propellant for guns/rocket motors for ATGM.

4) Dedicated anti-ADS rounds. How about a giant 120mm equivalent of the 35mm AHEAD round? Or an airbursting chaff/flare round? One shooter vehicle in a platoon can blind hostile ADS, whilst the rest can smack the targets with conventional rounds.

Anyway, Idle Speculation Man away!

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Well, first off they don't "Knock Down" 120mm APFSDS rounds, they deflect them. (APFSDS are not "Smart rounds".)

Instead of hitting you straight on like it is supposed to it slams in sideways with a lot of kinetic energy, so, bearing in mind a ~5Kg spike shaped lump of DU/WHA flying at you at around 1500mps you'd still need tank levels armour to "Stop" the round without sustaining injury.

Otherwise regarding HEAT rounds I believe the Russians are developing a system with 2 coaxial rockets launched with milliseconds of each other. A dummy one to counter the ADS and the main one for...you know.

So this would fall into cat 1 & 4 as listed in your post

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Afternoon gents,

The way Trophy, Arena and other ADS systems are developing, I was wondering if any of you have any input in terms of how these systems may one day be defeated?

Yep.

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Hadn't realised, my mistake. Maybe one day, fifty years from now the answer will be debated in some historical forum somewhere. And some civvy will ask OPSEC questions about those fancy new energy shields ;)

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Its quiete ok to discuss the princinple tech. and published data f.e. about trophy.

But specific plans for counter measures and counter-counter measures are of the table :-)

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Guest Killjoy

I've had a rather tiring and trying day at work, but that made me laugh a little too much. :)

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