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fritzgryphon

Noob: Introduction and questions

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Long time lurker, I finally did it; I bought one whole month of SB. I blame Rotar. I really appreciate your videos.

I'd love to show up and be a target in your friday game. Before that I wonder if you can help me get up to speed.

1. Plugging right into my DSL modem I shouldn't have any port issues?

2. I just installed the game yesterday. Do I need any patches or other content?

And some general game questions, too. I read the manual but not very well. Tanks seem way easy compared to airplanes, but there are too many people inside them and it makes problems.

1. The Bradley rocket launcher keeps popping up and down. I understand it should be down for traveling at speed, but is there any way to keep it in place?

2. The Bradley sometimes drops troops at random. Can I keep them inside until commanded to go?

3. In the Leo2E, I can't select ammunition from the gunners position, but from the commanders position. I'm guessing this is intentional but workaround maybe?

4. Abrams ammo indexing? Sometimes I'm not sure what bullet is in the tube. Do I need to switch to commander's position?

5. The Bradley stops shooting with about half of ready ammo expended.

6. CV90s seem to turn on lead compensation (Moving Target) by default when I lase. Can I turn it off? Didn't see a control that explicitly says that. (Edit: I can press P and it goes back to Stationary)

7. This is a really odd one (to me). When moving at speed in the Leo2 90° abeam to stationary enemies, I lase and fire and:

a. Sabot rounds fall right on the target, despite my sideways speed. Like on a wire.

b. HEAT rounds actually fall offset to the -opposite- of my movement direction (if I am driving east, the rounds fall west of the target, by a lot)

c. MG rounds fall offset in the -same- direction of my movement (if I am driving east, MG rounds fall offset to the east as well)

I understand some fire controls might not compensate for own movement, but it seems weird that it would be different for different ammo types. This happens with or without lead compensation depressed, and whether driving forward or backward, at any range.

Sorry for the long list!

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Long time lurker, I finally did it; I bought one whole month of SB. I blame Rotar. I really appreciate your videos.

I'd love to show up and be a target in your friday game. Before that I wonder if you can help me get up to speed.

1. Plugging right into my DSL modem I shouldn't have any port issues?

2. I just installed the game yesterday. Do I need any patches or other content?

Sorry for the long list!

I'll do these one at a time just in case others jump in while I'm part way through.

1. If you have the production version of 3.011 then yes you need to read the "port forwarding" thread for details:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=7739

There is a Beta patch currently out (3.019) which reduces this but the number of trial licenses have been reached so its no longer available.

2. Well as mentioned in "1" there is 3.019 but it is a mute point as its no longer available. there may be another public beta patch later on that includes all the things from 3.019 but you'll need to visit here to read any annoncements about it.

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1. The Bradley rocket launcher keeps popping up and down. I understand it should be down for traveling at speed, but is there any way to keep it in place?

The only way to do this is drive very slowly.

The Bradley's TOW can only be used when the vehicle is static and level.

Travelling with it "up" damages it.

So you either put it down, move and put it up at the new location or.

Keep it up but move at somewhere under 5Kph.

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2. The Bradley sometimes drops troops at random. Can I keep them inside until commanded to go?

Well the "sometimes" probably depends on the tactic you have given them.

Other tactics will keep the troops mounted but then you need to remember to tell them to get out or they will happily die inside the vehicle.

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3. In the Leo2E, I can't select ammunition from the gunners position, but from the commanders position. I'm guessing this is intentional but workaround maybe?

Well its a simulation of real life designed primarily to train AFV crewman, not a game.

In Real Life the Commander tells the Loader what ammunition to load and the Gunner what targets to fire at (hence why he's called a "Commander"). :)

The Gunner does not have the authority to just tell the Loader to load whatever he thinks is a good idea.

So yes if you want to fire something "special", go to the Commander's position, unload the currently loaded round, tell the Loader to load what you want (by hitting the relevant ammunition nature key), then when its loaded go back to the Gunner's seat and fire.

Normally you'll be dead by then so its usually a good idea to go with what the Commander tells the Loader to load so you can fire the right ammunition nature at the right target.

Edited by Gibsonm

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4. Abrams ammo indexing? Sometimes I'm not sure what bullet is in the tube. Do I need to switch to commander's position?

In the Gunner's position look at the top right of the screen. In red will be displayed the ammunition nature currently loaded.

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5. The Bradley stops shooting with about half of ready ammo expended.

In Real Life the Bradley has an "end of belt" warning light so the crew knows to reload BEFORE the ammunition runs out.

Doing this means reloading (adding to the belt) is pretty quick.

If, due to some emergency, you override the warning you can shoot off all the ammunition but then you basically have to pull the ammunition feed and back of the gun apart to load from scratch.

This takes about 15mins.

Its up to you to assess if you can go with adding ammo to the belt or if you really need those last few rounds now and are happy to accept the longer delay later.

Over to someone else for the rest ...

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The Leopard 2 fire control system will automatically compensate for your own vehicles movement, which is why your shots from the side while moving hit with the sabots, but I'm not sure what's up with the HE-T rounds missing in the same situation (I was able to replicate that with the Leopardo 2E.)

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Oh, and in the M1 the ammo display will blink if you have the wrong ammo indexed in the gunner position.

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And some general game questions, too. I read the manual but not very well.

If you only have time to read a single chapter, make that chapter 8. Chapter eight is the most important one because it explains the meaning behind the different tactics, in other words, the rules of the game.

Not saying that the other chapters are irrelevant, but they usually apply to specific aspects like artillery, obstacles, etc. - and as a beginner you probably won't start with these elements. But chapter 8 - the most important one! (can't repeat that often enough... chapter 8!) - is universal and covers non-intuitive aspects, the behavior of computer-controlled units.

Tanks seem way easy compared to airplanes...

The switchology is easy, yes. But the environment is way more complex, and from a complex environment and the multiple different weapon systems and their unique characteristics follows a much more demanding tactical situation. Plus, you usually need to perform a "tactical juggle" when managing multiple units at the same time. Knowing when which of the units under your control needs your attention is crucial. That knowledge will come with experience, of course. :)

1. The Bradley rocket launcher keeps popping up and down. I understand it should be down for traveling at speed, but is there any way to keep it in place?

The behavior is designed so that, while you are in the observer's or commander's place, you can't damage it with your orders (the computer-controlled gunner will retract it before the vehicle reaches a critical speed at which it would get damaged). So, it's a necessary evil. If the question was "why don't they keep the thing down?" the answer would be two-fold. First, you never know when you might need it (you might stumble into a tank unexpectedly, and when that happens you'll be happy to have the launcher ready). Second, if you want control over that, you must also be given control over when to move it into firing position. If the thing couldn't be damaged if the player left it up all the time, nobody would retract it, so you'd be loaded with a lot of micromanagement that we found quite undesirable.

3. In the Leo2E, I can't select ammunition from the gunners position, but from the commanders position. I'm guessing this is intentional but workaround maybe?

Yes: Be the commander. ;)

If you want to command, that's where you got to be. As a gunner, be prepared to take orders from the computer-controlled (or a human) commander.

4. Abrams ammo indexing? Sometimes I'm not sure what bullet is in the tube. Do I need to switch to commander's position?

When jumping into the gunner's seat, everything will be arranged as it should be (proper index selected for whatever is in the tube). After that you're on your own (you got to listen to what the commander orders and what the loader reports). If you're not sure, jumping out of the gunner's seat will make the computer take over, and yes, he might recover from errors that you may have made.

5. The Bradley stops shooting with about half of ready ammo expended.

End of belt. This is the moment where the last round of the belted ammunition is still in a place where new belt segments can be clipped on, so it's a rather quick way to refill the ready ammo bin. If you keep firing (there's an end of belt override switch on the control panel) you'll have to fire until there's no more ammunition left, at which point you have to feed a new belt through the entire ammo feed system with some manually operated hand crank and other activities. This takes more time, during which your vehicle is essentially defenseless. So, as you approach the end of belt the platoon leader must make a tactical decision - pull back the vehicle for a quick reload, or have it keep firing at the expense of an even longer downtime later. If your position is in danger of being overrun, you probably keep firing. In other cases you'll need to think of what task you may be given next. If there's a lull in the fighting, it always makes sense to refill the ammo.

7. This is a really odd one (to me). When moving at speed in the Leo2 90° abeam to stationary enemies, I lase and fire and:

a. Sabot rounds fall right on the target, despite my sideways speed. Like on a wire.

Yes. The Leopard 2's fire control system compensates for your own lateral movement ("Verschleppungskorrektur"; it knows the vehicle's own velocity and the turret position plus the lased (or manually entered) range.

b. HEAT rounds actually fall offset to the -opposite- of my movement direction (if I am driving east, the rounds fall west of the target, by a lot)

Maybe you pressed dynamic lead when you shouldn't. Remember, use it ONLY if THE TARGET is (really) moving (sideways), not if there's just an apparent movement due to parallax shift. Also, be sure to have a steady aim when using dynamic lead. If you slack for a moment and then overcompensate, dynamic lead will treat this as if the target just changed direction or massively accelerated.

c. MG rounds fall offset in the -same- direction of my movement (if I am driving east, MG rounds fall offset to the east as well)

Depending on the Leopard model, dynamic lead may or may not be applied to the coax.

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Thanks Ssnake! Yes, it would definitely be good to know what the tactics do.

As for the sabot/HEAT motion compensation thing, the Abrams does the same thing with sabot and M830. With sideways motion, sabot always hits and HEAT always misses, and always misses by the same amount. Might be a genuine bug.

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1st test with the Leo2A5 gave me the same problem.

Distance 2200m, full speed at 90° to target.

I had to adjust aim-point to about 2mil in driving direction to hit the tgt with HEAT.

I'm not a Leo2 man, so don't know if that's IRL or indeed some SB problem.

Edit: Indeed this occurs in all Leo2A5 models at 90° angle, it works if you have and angle lower the say...60-70°.

Hmm, well, driving 90° to the enemy is not an good idea anyway ;-)

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driving 90° to the enemy is not an good idea anyway

Consistently plinking units at 3k while zigzagging at 60km/h is about the goodest thing I can imagine. Better if also going over jumpssmiley-face-cool.gif

To be more specific, I notice the sabot is lagging opposite my motion as well. If I'm driving left, the rounds consistently hit ever so slightly to the right side of the target.

It could be a problem with all rounds, that just gets worse with long ToF and sideways speed.

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With Rücksteuerung active, the own tank's movement (and the resulting lateral displacement of the round) must be compensated at any turret angle, for any type of ammunition, at any valid range.

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I talked to our Leo2 guys. They said that you must not press dynamic-lead and then it should work.

So I thought it was a mistake on my side, but even with that procedure there is no joy.

If you let the AI do the gunning in KÜ mode, you can see that it will first aim center mass and then switch the aim-point 2-3 mil in driving direction to score a hit on the second round.

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The Leopard 2's fire control system compensates for your own lateral movement ("Verschleppungskorrektur"; it knows the vehicle's own velocity and the turret position plus the lased (or manually entered) range.

Maybe you pressed dynamic lead when you shouldn't. Remember, use it ONLY if THE TARGET is (really) moving (sideways), not if there's just an apparent movement due to parallax shift. Also, be sure to have a steady aim when using dynamic lead. If you slack for a moment and then overcompensate, dynamic lead will treat this as if the target just changed direction or massively accelerated.

I read somewhere in the tutorials, that you always needed to use the palm-switch if your own vehicle (Leo) was moving when engaging targets?

From the manual :

"Once either you or the targets start moving, LEAD will probably have to be added to

the gun to ensure that the round hits the target.

Lead is added to compensate for the distance the target (or your tank) moves while

the round is in the air. "

And:

"-If the target is moving, you must hold down the DYNAMIC LEAD button.

In this case, the (nearly) instantaneous angular velocity of the turret is also used in

the lead calculation.

Dynamic lead is cancelled as soon as you release the dynamic lead button."

"-If the target is stationary and your tank is moving, you also have to hold down the

DYNAMIC LEAD button.

In this case the (nearly) instantaneous angular velocity of the turret is also used in

the lead calculation. The ballistic computer can not calculate how much closer/further

away from the target, you are getting during the engagement, so remember to lase

at frequent intervals."

Now i'm confused :confused:

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Palm switch dynamic lead are 2 different buttons IRL. Palm switch is a kind of safetysystem against unwanted inputs...by pressing your palms agains the controler you tell him: I'm here and concious. Dynamic lead is pressed with you thumb IOT initiate lead calculation.

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Those old (for version 2.225!) tutorial PDFs appear to reuse text from the Leo 1A5 PDF, which does need the dynamic lead active when firing on a stationary target from a moving tank.

I just checked and even back in the original Steel Beasts you didn't need to use dynamic lead when firing sideways against stationary targets with the Leo 2A4. However, heat rounds fell behind the target just like they do now, so that issue's definitely been around a while. :D

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With Rücksteuerung active, the own tank's movement (and the resulting lateral displacement of the round) must be compensated at any turret angle, for any type of ammunition, at any valid range.

Ha ha, we had that discussion Years ago with "Höhenverschleppung" in the Panzertruppe Forum...

So, English is not my native language I will do it on our Forum in German.

I hope you understand that a FCS can not look out of a Hatch to decide Target is in Front, above or behind me........

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