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I doubt any tank can really withstand Kornet on the front turret. 1200mm of penetration after ERA with more than likely a dense liner to nullify composite armor will probably punch a hole in all of them.

The Israelis have spent a lot of time and money developing Soft Kill Active Protective Systems for there AFV,s

Seemingly they lost a lot of tanks and IFV's in there last invasion of Lebanon 45 plus.

To Russian ATGM and RPG's So many that senior officers were questioning if Tanks were Really worth there high cost.

I hope other army's are doing the same. it seems ridiculous to me to spend million on a MBT knowing it can be taken out By a relatively inexpensive ATGM or RPG.

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We had discussed the Iraqi M1A1 hit on other forums, it's not a direct frontal hit, it's a hit to the turret bustle, you can see the blast doors doing what they are supposed to do. And the profile of the turret when the missile hits, it's anything but a direct frontal strike.

(140409192959)_priehali3.jpeg

You can see in the screen capture the turret is turned to the side.

Group doing the attacks is called ISIS, and with videos, it's allways telling when they quickly cut away from filming, guess they didn't want to film the Turret moving around indicating it was still operational.

Besides, may look spectacular when the ammo is hit.

Doesn't mean the crew are disabled or the tank though other than ammo depletion.

Since we were talking about ATGM's here's my collection of videos showcasing the use of various ATGM's in real operational scenarios.

Syria, T-72 is struck on top turret, with resulting cook off. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a7c_1382983531

Catastrophic ammo explosion in T-72, you can see the turret thrown. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6RC-GZuhiI

RPG type hit in the side, crew immediately bails out, this one is graphic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XThu_55ioxU

This is an ambush, it looks like they are waiting for vehicles to get to the clearing at the overpass when they fire.

Another ambush, using the lightpole as a reference point on when to fire their AT round.

Israel: merkava hit, notice it's a side shot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g7KYxEbimw

Merkava taking multiple hits to the side:

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I hope other army's are doing the same. it seems ridiculous to me to spend million on a MBT knowing it can be taken out By a relatively inexpensive ATGM or RPG.

Israel's losses were generally akin to WW2 AT gun ambushes on the flanks from long range. Exchange AT guns with ATGMs and it's the same thing, other than ATGMs being easier to dig in (RPGs weren't the main threat). With that though, they had to take the hits on the armor otherwise they wouldn't have gotten anywhere to secure objectives. Part and parcel with war. You can only do so much from the air and with artillery when the only way forward is into the fire. Infantry are too exposed in this type of fighting, and helicopter insertions are far more vulnerable. Tanks and APCs moving up and taking hits and returning them is the CAV life.

APS, which they've invested in and fielded will greatly increase the survivability of their heavy forces though, and it's something most casualty shy countries should field.

Don't think ATGMs are cheap though. A Kornet is about $875.000.00 for 1 launch unit and 10 missiles. One M1A1 for about 2.5 million would be a far more combat effective system than the Kornet unit and 10 shots, even if 1 of those shots can take out the tank; the tank can do the same back just as easily, and many other things.

Invader ZIM,

For the hit to set off the bustle magazine (you see a blast panel flying away), it's going to have to hit to go through about the same amount of effective armor as the front turret. Whilst I think it hit the front left turret, hitting around the smoke grenade launchers will still mean it has to go through around the same amount of armor. Even further back.

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Israel's losses were generally akin to WW2 AT gun ambushes on the flanks from long range. Exchange AT guns with ATGMs and it's the same thing, other than ATGMs being easier to dig in (RPGs weren't the main threat). With that though, they had to take the hits on the armor otherwise they wouldn't have gotten anywhere to secure objectives. Part and parcel with war. You can only do so much from the air and with artillery when the only way forward is into the fire. Infantry are too exposed in this type of fighting, and helicopter insertions are far more vulnerable. Tanks and APCs moving up and taking hits and returning them is the CAV life.

APS, which they've invested in and fielded will greatly increase the survivability of their heavy forces though, and it's something most casualty shy countries should field.

Don't think ATGMs are cheap though. A Kornet is about $875.000.00 for 1 launch unit and 10 missiles. One M1A1 for about 2.5 million would be a far more combat effective system than the Kornet unit and 10 shots, even if 1 of those shots can take out the tank; the tank can do the same back just as easily, and many other things.

Invader ZIM,

For the hit to set off the bustle magazine (you see a blast panel flying away), it's going to have to hit to go through about the same amount of effective armor as the front turret. Whilst I think it hit the front left turret, hitting around the smoke grenade launchers will still mean it has to go through around the same amount of armor. Even further back.

The M1A1 costs a lot more then 2.5 million unit price.

Production of M1 and M1A1 tanks totalled some 9,000 tanks at a cost of approximately $4.30 million per unit. By 1999 costs for the tank were upwards of US$5

Ref the ATGM attacks

Check it out for your self.

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The Israelis have spent a lot of time and money developing Soft Kill Active Protective Systems for there AFV,s

Seemingly they lost a lot of tanks and IFV's in there last invasion of Lebanon 45 plus.

To Russian ATGM and RPG's So many that senior officers were questioning if Tanks were Really worth there high cost.

I hope other army's are doing the same. it seems ridiculous to me to spend million on a MBT knowing it can be taken out By a relatively inexpensive ATGM or RPG.

As reported....

Those number are off a bit, some report 50 were hit, eight of which remained serviceable, 21 suffered some degree of armor penetration. 15 crewmen were killed. Mostly older Mk II and Mk III's. The problem wasn't the Merkavas, the problem was the lack of tactics. They were sent piecemeal, stop-start, into ridiculously tank-unfriendly terrain.Three were complete WO, but used for spare parts. I don't read any of the MK4 were damaged beyond repair.

IFV's suffered, but not the extent that is reported that a LARGE part of them were destroyed in the press.

You have to dig deep to find the facts as both side have their dis-information dept working overtime.:clin:

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More hits, Looks like two more M1A1M's, one of which looks pretty angry after being hit. Funny how they keep cutting away right after the hits on the M1's though. They have no problem filming the aftermath of other burning vehicles, or waiting until people get out of other tanks, but once the round hits an M1... CUT!! That's a wrap!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kgxFQG7GrQ

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Israel's losses were generally akin to WW2 AT gun ambushes on the flanks from long range. Exchange AT guns with ATGMs and it's the same thing, other than ATGMs being easier to dig in (RPGs weren't the main threat). With that though, they had to take the hits on the armor otherwise they wouldn't have gotten anywhere to secure objectives. Part and parcel with war. You can only do so much from the air and with artillery when the only way forward is into the fire. Infantry are too exposed in this type of fighting, and helicopter insertions are far more vulnerable. Tanks and APCs moving up and taking hits and returning them is the CAV life.

APS, which they've invested in and fielded will greatly increase the survivability of their heavy forces though, and it's something most casualty shy countries should field.

Don't think ATGMs are cheap though. A Kornet is about $875.000.00 for 1 launch unit and 10 missiles. One M1A1 for about 2.5 million would be a far more combat effective system than the Kornet unit and 10 shots, even if 1 of those shots can take out the tank; the tank can do the same back just as easily, and many other things.

Invader ZIM,

For the hit to set off the bustle magazine (you see a blast panel flying away), it's going to have to hit to go through about the same amount of effective armor as the front turret. Whilst I think it hit the front left turret, hitting around the smoke grenade launchers will still mean it has to go through around the same amount of armor. Even further back.

No, the turret side armor on the abrams is not as strong as the turret frontal armor. A Kornet will not penetrate the frontal armor of a Abrams. Infact the armor is layered different around the ammo compartment than it is around the crew compartment.

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More hits, Looks like two more M1A1M's, one of which looks pretty angry after being hit. Funny how they keep cutting away right after the hits on the M1's though. They have no problem filming the aftermath of other burning vehicles, or waiting until people get out of other tanks, but once the round hits an M1... CUT!! That's a wrap!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kgxFQG7GrQ

"Oh crap Abdul, now it's just pissed off! Run like your falafel depends on it!"

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"Oh crap Abdul, now it's just pissed off! Run like your falafel depends on it!"

Seeing as how Allah is being prayed to (and praised) by all sides in the conflict, I wonder how he hands out his favours. A roster maybe? :clin:

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Meanwhile In the Ukraine.

SU-25 making a rocket attack on positions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9v8mPGBpw1M&list=FLUbMa9kEYoLP3_Zlc2nzVPA&index=5

Mi-24? making attacks on more positions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4lRLDIkFIo&index=4&list=FLUbMa9kEYoLP3_Zlc2nzVPA

Same helo as above, but now underneath, and with dogs barking.

More helos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCnog_euyBg&index=2&list=FLUbMa9kEYoLP3_Zlc2nzVPA

I thought he sounds were interesting that were captured of these aircraft.

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In IL2 Battle of Stalingrad I always thought it was a bug when the russian aircraft keep their position lights on during combat. Now looking at that Frogfoot I might have to change my mind. I also now know why there is a war/peace switch in modern aircraft.

-C-

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We had discussed the Iraqi M1A1 hit on other forums, it's not a direct frontal hit, it's a hit to the turret bustle, you can see the blast doors doing what they are supposed to do. And the profile of the turret when the missile hits, it's anything but a direct frontal strike.

(140409192959)_priehali3.jpeg

You can see in the screen capture the turret is turned to the side.

Group doing the attacks is called ISIS, and with videos, it's allways telling when they quickly cut away from filming, guess they didn't want to film the Turret moving around indicating it was still operational.

Besides, may look spectacular when the ammo is hit.

Doesn't mean the crew are disabled or the tank though other than ammo depletion.

Since we were talking about ATGM's here's my collection of videos showcasing the use of various ATGM's in real operational scenarios.

Syria, T-72 is struck on top turret, with resulting cook off. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a7c_1382983531

Catastrophic ammo explosion in T-72, you can see the turret thrown. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6RC-GZuhiI

RPG type hit in the side, crew immediately bails out, this one is graphic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XThu_55ioxU

This is an ambush, it looks like they are waiting for vehicles to get to the clearing at the overpass when they fire.

Another ambush, using the lightpole as a reference point on when to fire their AT round.

Israel: merkava hit, notice it's a side shot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g7KYxEbimw

Merkava taking multiple hits to the side:

I Agree, it is a hit in the bustle, ammo blow off panels worked like they are suppose too.

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