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Yeah, guess he wear tose yellow ear-guards for a reason. The second guy doesn't :-D

And one penalty point for daskal!! He did not insert at least a "moderat snackbar warning" in his post!

How's his snackbar doing?

Guess repeat trade has taken a hit....

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Afraid I'm only seeing a white box placeholder. :(

If its from YouTube all you need to put is:

"[ youtube]"YouTube share code"[ /youtube]"

I've put a space in to both [ youtube] and [ /youtube] so you can see the code. You don't need the full URL.

Just in case this is what has happened here.

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Ok sorry, I put the whole link instead of just the video share code.

I cut off one of my finger and you should get it by email soon :bigsmile:

No need, just figured you weren't sure how to do it so I thought I'd provide feedback and a suggested "fix".

Next time though .... ;)

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What they don't mention is you can do this cycle (1 x take off, 1 x landing) about five more times with an M1 on board and then the C-17 needs to be basically pulled apart for stress checks on the airframe, etc.

I guess not huge issue for the US where you can use one group of aircraft to insert the response team and then another group to extract it, thus sharing the potential wear and tear.

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CR2s driving off into the sunset accompanied by sombre music. Sends a message doesn't it? :sad2:

Pretty sure its early morning. :)

Starts with the bivvies (small tents for the crew) set up and then at the end the vehicles are moving out.

Probably at End Ex given that a few have their gun in the "travel lock" which usually means the train or longer distance transport, isn't too far away (bad for the gun to travel too far cross country in the lock).

So I'm guessing its the last morning and the BattleGroup is moving out towards its home Barrack locations.

So probably a pretty happy time for them. :)

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What they don't mention is you can do this cycle (1 x take off, 1 x landing) about five more times with an M1 on board and then the C-17 needs to be basically pulled apart for stress checks on the airframe, etc..

That's not good. I'm not familiar with the C17 but for most transport aircraft the type of load doesn't matter as long as you stay within max takeoff and max landing weight limits and none of the landings are 'abnormal'. The max landing weight is almost always less than the max takeoff weight, but that isn't usually a problem as by the time you have got to your destination you have burned off fuel to be below the MLW. The problem comes if you encounter a problem shortly after takeoff and need to land again pronto. But AFAIK most military transports - unlike civilian airliners - can dump fuel in those circumstances.

Is there something special about the C17/M1 combination?

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How did they get all the tanks and stuff to the gulf? Would the heavy stuff ie:tanks, go by sea?

Sorry for the noobish question, I just assumed they would all have gone by air.

Mick. :)


Yep sea or rail.

The build up was one of the reasons for the long initial air campaign, so all the heavy stuff could get there from Europe.

Soldiers are easy, just pack em in. But tanks need either heavy airlift (e.g. C-5) or deck space. The C-17 is a very capable aircraft but its not a C-5. :)

From here (a random source from a Saturday morning search and my emboldening):


THE BUILDUP OF GROUND FORCES. DESERT SHIELD/STORM illustrated that sizable U.S. ground forces and major deplovments will still be required in the post cold war world. In Saudi Arabia, unlike Europe or Korea, the U.S. did not have significant ground forces or equipment on scene. The U.S. was faced with a major expeditionary operation in which speed of deployment was potentially crucial.

The U.S. was generally well-prepared for a major expeditionary operation. Creation of the Rapid Deployment Force (RDF), along with major improvements in expeditionary capabilities in the 1980s-- particularly strategic sealift-- provided a solid force structure on which to base DESERT SHIELD/STORM. Specific mobility enhancement programs included:

AFLOAT PREPOSITIONED SHIPS (APS). Eleven ships, carrying ordnance, supplies, and fuel for the Army and Air Force, plus one ship carrying a naval field hospital. These ships are continuously manned by civilian crews under contract to the Military Sealift Command (MSC). Since initial deployment, most of the ships have been stationed at Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, but they can be quickly repositioned in response to a crisis elsewhere in the world.

MARITIME PREPOSITIONING SHIPS (MPS). Thirteen ships, carrying unit equipment and 30 days of supplies for three Marine Expeditionary Brigades (MEBs). The ships form three MPS squadrons, which are normally based in Guam, Diego Garcia, and the Atlantic. They are manned continuously with civilian crews under contract to the MSC.

C-5B GALAXY. The Air Force developed a new version of the C-5 airlifter and doubled the size of the C-5 fleet, greatly increasing the capacity to move outsized cargo via air.

FAST SEALIFT SHIPS (FSS). The Navy purchased and modified eight SL-7 fast sealift ships capable of making over 30 knots for rapid deployment of Army equipment. The SL-7s are maintained in 96 hour readiness status in peacetime. Two large hospital ships (one on each coast) are maintained in a similar status.

READY RESERVE FORCE (RRF). In the late 1970s, the Navy began purchasing militarily useful ships to bolster the aging mothballed fleet of World War II era cargo ships. Over the next ten years, the RRF grew to 96 ships-- mostly roll on/roll-off ships, barge carriers, breakbulk ships, and small tankers. These ships are maintained at various U.S. ports by the Maritime Administration in an inactive status, without crews. The RRF program was designed to allow activation of ships in 5, 10, or 20 days depending on readiness status. Upon receipt of an activation order, RRF ships are towed to a shipyard for mechanical preparation to sail. Crews are drawn from available U.S. civilian merchant mariners.

Those strategic lift assets were designed to support a rapid buildup in combat power based on the concept of joint force sequencing. The first ground-combat forces on scene for DESERT SHIELD/STORM were two brigades of the 82nd Airborne Division, which arrived via airlift to provide both initial presence and security for airbases and ports. These forces initially relied on support and provisions from Marine Corps supplies. They were quickly followed by two MPS MEBs, which provided additional firepower and greater sustainability. The heavy Army forces essential for modern mechanized warfare followed in turn-- first the 24th Mechanized Division, primarily via fast sealift, and subsequently the 101st Air Assault Division, the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, the 1st Armored Cavalry Division, and associated corps command element, also via sealift.

Strategic sealift was crucial to deploying Army forces. Although the soldiers were flown to the Gulf, the bulk of the equipment and supplies was too large to transport by air. The main exception is the 82nd Airborne Division, which is lighter than other Army divisions, has less organic sustainability, and is the lead Army division for rapid deployment. Otherwise, most Army unit equipment and resupply moved by sea.

Prior to the late 1970s, sealift was heavily dependent on the U.S. flag fleet and the National Defense Reserve Fleet (NDRF) of mothballed World War II-era ships. The procurement of APS, FSS, and RRF ships in the 1980s offset the decline in availability of militarily useful commercial shipping and the deteriorating condition of the NDRF. Sealift forces were sized for a global war growing out of a conflict in the Persian Gulf in which the initial Army deployment in the Gulf would be supported entirely by U.S. shipping. The eight SL-7 fast sealift ships were designed for rapid deployment of a heavy division. Deployment of succeeding divisions would depend on activation of the RRF, use of U.S. flag ships in the Sealift Readiness Program, charter of commercial vessels, and, if necessary, requisition of additional U.S. flag ships.

About three-fourths of DESERT SHIELD/STORM deliveries were made by ships resulting from the 7 billion investment in strategic sealift programs during the last ten years. Without these programs, there would have been no afloat prepositioning ships, no fast sealift, and no RRF. The APS/MPS ships prepositioned in Diego Garcia delivered ordnance and supplies two or three weeks sooner than sealift from the U.S. could have delivered it. Fast sealift ships delivered cargo at roughly twice the speed of most commercial shipping. The RRF provided militarily useful vessels-roll-on/roll-off ships, breakbulk cargo ships, LASH and SEABEE barge carriers-- that are no longer readily available in sufficient numbers from the activeU.S. flag fleet. The deployment in DESERT SHIELD/STORM was impressive and sealift performed close to its realistic potential in its first real test. More to the point, this experience has provided a sound basis for judging the nation's strategic lift requirements for the future.

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"Moby Dick" on tracks, just like "Apocalypse Now" was "Heart of Darkness" shifted to Vietnam. If you accept these movies for what they are and don't mistake them for a realistic war movie, both are good (or even great).

There aren't many tank movies out there, let alone good and realistic ones. White Tiger is certainly one of the better.

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Maybe the Russians have super engineers and, above all, super project managers at all levels of the program. The idea of a common armored vehicle platform has been tried over an over and over, and miserably failed to deliver on each attempt. Either the performance was sub par, or the cost savings dur to spare parts commonality did not remotely offset the overall higher system price.

I'm seeing ...:

  • Three different weapons jumbled into a single turret with a vehicle crew of three.
    Who's going to train these people to man the tank before they die of old age? How will they maintain their weapons? Will all the automation in the turret actually work, or reduce the overall combat readiness?
  • A gas turbine.
    And then it's supposed to be turned into a hybrid drive concept? Yay, more complexity!
  • So they can't fit three people into the hull, and put two there with a third still inside the turret.
    Will they finally manage to separate crew from ammo and fuel? Arguably that's more important for survivability than anything else. Ho will they define the role of the commander - being next to the driver in the hull, relying exclusively on camera views? Or have a commander-gunner in the turret? Single-man turrets with commander-gunners haven't performed well, ever.

We shall see.

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