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DemolitionMan
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I was told, in 1979, that they did use APFSDS.  I have read since that the fins still fit the full bore of the gun tube and actually cause quite a lot of damage to it.  This caused them to train mostly with sub-caliber munitions and the occasional full-bore round.

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13 hours ago, Maj.Hans said:

the 115mm having an APFS that was a full size round with fins on the back

Yes, "full caliber fins", but not a full caliber projectile. It's described in the Battlefield Hazards appendix of the User's Manual, BTW.

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3 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Yes, "full caliber fins", but not a full caliber projectile. It's described in the Battlefield Hazards appendix of the User's Manual, BTW.

 

In that video he makes it sound like the tank had a full caliber projectile with fins before the APFSDS.

 

Wonder if that story is confused with T-55s that had both full caliber AP and APFSDS?

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On 8/6/2021 at 5:28 PM, Hedgehog said:

Apparently the T-62 has a 4 round ready rack:

There is no ready racks in T-54/55/62 (albeit US army thinks different), and loading from any rack except wet one in frontal fuel tanks is slowest.

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interesting gun.  Recently with a friend I was thinking that in place like Finland...  this kind of weapon with inexpensive even if almost unarmored but extremely mobile modular chassis, but with good sensors could be a serious threath to just about any AFVs.   I actually was looking at german wiesel, but was thinking that caliber would need to be 60mm +     and quick firing possible with quick reload magazine of atleast 4+ rounds  

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On 8/13/2021 at 11:16 PM, Maj.Hans said:

 

In that video he makes it sound like the tank had a full caliber projectile with fins before the APFSDS.

 

Wonder if that story is confused with T-55s that had both full caliber AP and APFSDS?

 

Never heard about a full-caliber 115 mm AP, referring to the story about the Egyptian T-62s in the 24th minute.

In 1973, the Egyptian and Syrian T-62s were captured with APFSDS, HEAT and HE-Frag rounds. The T-62 could easily penetrate any tank in IDF inventory from medium range. That was also true in 1982, except for the few Merkavas (which weren't immune either). 

At least the BM-3 did have 115 mm fins.

Captured T-62s (named Tiran 6), with their original 115 mm guns, served the IDF from 1973 until the early '90s.  

Some of the captured T-62s were sent to the US (and to others) for testing. A 115 mm APFSDS is shown at 10:20 in the following video:

 

 

The T-54/55s and SU-100s captured in 1973 had APDS, HEAT, APHE and HE-Frag. However, AFAIK the tanks captured in 1967 had only APHE and HE-Frag rounds. Perhaps, somehow, the full-caliber 115 mm AP story has evolved from the lack of 100 mm APDS and HEAT rounds in the Egyptian army in 1967.

 

Also, referring to the story in the 8th minute about the 5th Sherman crewmember, AFAIK the IDF Sherman crew remained always 5. BTW, a M-50 Sherman was also restored by the same guys:

 

 

An additional video showing the restored T-62:

 

 

Lastly, a T-62 captured in Lebanon with the same blue and yellow tactical markings.

Edited by Iarmor
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On 8/17/2021 at 2:25 PM, Iarmor said:

 

Never heard about a full-caliber 115 mm AP, referring to the story about the Egyptian T-62s in the 24th minute.

In 1973, the Egyptian and Syrian T-62s were captured with APFSDS, HEAT and HE-Frag rounds. The T-62 could easily penetrate any tank in IDF inventory from medium range. That was also true in 1982, except for the few Merkavas (which weren't immune either). 

At least the BM-3 did have 115 mm fins.

Captured T-62s (named Tiran 6), with their original 115 mm guns, served the IDF from 1973 until the early '90s.  

Some of the captured T-62s were sent to the US (and to others) for testing. A 115 mm APFSDS is shown at 10:20 in the following video:

 

 

The T-54/55s and SU-100s captured in 1973 had APDS, HEAT, APHE and HE-Frag. However, AFAIK the tanks captured in 1967 had only APHE and HE-Frag rounds. Perhaps, somehow, the full-caliber 115 mm AP story has evolved from the lack of 100 mm APDS and HEAT rounds in the Egyptian army in 1967.

 

Also, referring to the story in the 8th minute about the 5th Sherman crewmember, AFAIK the IDF Sherman crew remained always 5. BTW, a M-50 Sherman was also restored by the same guys:

 

 

An additional video showing the restored T-62:

 

 

Lastly, a T-62 captured in Lebanon with the same blue and yellow tactical markings.

He starts the story at 23:00, you may have skipped past it.  Sounded to me like he was talking speficially about a full caliber APFS round for the T-62.

 

Oh well just thought it was curious.

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On 8/24/2021 at 4:07 AM, Ssnake said:

Well, how COULD you fin stabilize a "full caliber" round to begin with, I have to ask.

 

Tailboon with fins, like all the 115 and 125mm HEAT and HE-Frag rounds, the M830 and DM12?
I mean...I think it's been done before?

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Well, you still need to fit the tail boom into the cartridge and retain enough volume for the propellant, and the primary charge spike. Without data to back it up, my gut feeling is that a full-caliber AP round fired from a smoothbore gun barrel is going to be a total dog performance-wise, assuming that the tail boom stabilization is actually effective (and it's definitely, literally, a drag to carry around over longer distances).

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That's kinda why I was curious about the whole story there especially with it being the T-62 that's in question.

 

I can totally see it happening with customers who ordered T-55s and found the gunsights marked for some kind of new "APFSDS" realizing they weren't getting the full compliment.  But I wasn't aware of the T-62 ever having a full caliber AP round.

But then again, weren't APFSDS rounds in rifled bore guns something that took a while to get figured out?  Something about the rifling causing problems?

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3 hours ago, Maj.Hans said:

But I wasn't aware of the T-62 ever having a full caliber AP round.

That's quite the point: I don't think there ever was any.

 

I never heard of it. It doesn't make sense from an engineering perspective. So my conclusion is that it was a misunderstanding because of the way the Soviet engineers created the APFSDS for the T-62, with a short sabot (makes for more reliable separation, and reduced parasitic mass), and the tail fins reaching full bore caliber to stabilize the projectile while inside the gun barrel (and then creating comparatively high drag (if less than a tail boom with folding fins) once that the projectile is in flight).

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4 hours ago, Maj.Hans said:

But I wasn't aware of the T-62 ever having a full caliber AP round.

T-62, e.g. a vehicle with 115mm smoothbore gun never ever had such thing. T-62A with 100mm rifled gun- is a different story, but it never reached mass production.

 

 

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Quote

On the very last days of the Iraq-Iran War, a group of Iranian soldiers from three generations are returning home. The news of an Iraqi attack on a strategic border area forces them to make a tough choice. Should they return home for a long-awaited family reunion or head to the battlefields?

"The Lost Strait" 2018 Iranian film

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iO7QnovVq0

Edited by Captain_Colossus
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