How much is too much RPG teams

[Hedgehog]

From the multiplayer thread:

Sure it may have been an oversight but its a balancing act.

Nor is it possible in RL to hump around a bazillion AT-4 rounds at no detriment.

If you overload them, don't complain when the fatigue levels go through the roof.

As a "stock option" I tend to give RPG teams one RPG per man.

Is this too many?

Should it be 3 RPGs per 4 man team?

[Grenny]

Tbh i don't know if in sb the rpg number has a fatigue effect.

Also it depends on the rpg type. To carry 5 pzfst-3 is harder then 5 rpg 7 rounds

[Gibsonm]

As a "stock option" I tend to give RPG teams one RPG per man.

Is this too many?

Should it be 3 RPGs per 4 man team?

That is a vary "variable" question and entirely up to the scenario designer.

Is the Rifle Team expecting to be away from their vehicle for an extended time?

Are they meant to be setting up a dismounted anti armour ambush far from their vehicle (where maybe they fore go something else in order to carry more RPG rounds - maybe dial down the amount of small arms ammo to compensate for the extra anti armour rounds)?

Or is the vehicle just on the reverse slope of the feature so they can duck back and reload from the parent vehicle?

Did the designer expect them to be used for something (and adjusted their ammo accordingly) and then the player decides to use them for something else entirely?

Also as Grenny pointed out it depends on what their anti armour weapon is.

- An additional RPG round is far easier to carry than an additional "all in one" launcher like an AT4.

- RPG-7V rounds are a lot smaller than RPG-29, etc.

Very hard to apply a one size fits all solution to every scenario.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Gibsonm

[MAJ_Fubar]

Gib beat me to it but I'll throw this in anyways: A typical six man Russo-Soviet style 'mech squad has a dedicated RPG gunner, so one ready and three carried for the RPG-7 would seem appropriate, but up to six carried wouldn't be out of place (mission dependent, see above); for other "disposable" type AT rockets, probably 1/1 or 1/2 is a good mix.

[Eisenschwein]

Every RPG 7 Gunner have an "Assistant Gunner".

Both can carry 3 RPG Rounds plus One loaded.

If needed, the Answer is 7 Rounds.

[Grenny]

Every RPG 7 Gunner have an "Assistant Gunner".

Both can carry 3 RPG Rounds plus One loaded.

If needed, the Answer is 7 Rounds.

True for the "leichte PzFst". 3x PzFst 3, while not impossible (12kg each and a bit unwieldy) would be a challenge. For us the drill "absitzen pz-vernichtungstrupp"(dissmount at team) would include 3 men+2pzfst ready+1spare round.

If you dissmount the squad for defence...you take all thats on board.

Again:type of weapon+situation+type of mission=one size fits all not possible

[RedWardancer]

In defense, an infantry unit can have dozens and dozens of shots for ATGMs and ATMs. If a commander truly believes he's going to face a massive armored attack, he will scream bloody murder for as many anti-tank weapons as possible. As a former dismount, I would rather carry lots of missiles than face a heavy armored attack with limited anti-tank weapons.

The other factor is what's available. If you just don't have the resources to overload on anti-tank weapons...time to make some molotov cocktails, satchel charges, tank pits and anything else you can think of. In SB...God help you.

[Gibsonm]

In defense, an infantry unit can have dozens and dozens of shots for ATGMs and ATMs.

Perhaps initially if you have had a whole bunch of notice and time to stockpile (all usually outside the timeframe of a SB mission, but still possible to be modeled).

But what happens when you displace to your alternate or secondary position? Are your 4 or 5 guys going to man handle their "dozens" of say Javelin rounds?

If you want to remain static and sit in one pit and just keep firing then your survival chances are going to be pretty limited and I doubt very much if you'll get through say a third of the "dozens" before a HEAT, HESH, MPAT or FRAG-HE round coming the other way removes you.

I get that you aren't a fan of how Infantry is currently modeled and than you can't do SPR type stuff, but again even if you could that's all close range urban stuff and usually the tanks will just stand off and blast you while the Infantry close in and clear you out.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Gibsonm
Typos

[Grenny]

... If a commander truly believes he's going to face a massive armored attack, ....

...he'll call for tank and engineer support ;-)

And on the other points, I have to agree with Gibson. Esp. when you are facing mechnized enemy, you want to be as mobile as possible.

One way to achieve that with "dozens" or AT/ATGM: have one/two round in your alternative positions.

That on the other hand will not work well against light infantry(Jäger an the like). Those buggers a great at infil-tactics. Often you'll find that your alternative BP has changed ownership already.

As they always say: In war there is no right or wrong approach to a problem...just a more or less suitable :-P

And we agree that many of the solutions possible are not modeled in SB.

[Apocalypse 31]

More importantly, the magical RPG hand off that is performed when a squad leader dies in game

[Hedgehog]

More importantly, the magical RPG hand off that is performed when a squad leader dies in game

A squad leader with X many extra lives.

Still better than it was.

Interesting so the best answer so far is:

"It Depends"

So "all in ones" with a PC close by might be 1 ready and 1/2 stowed.

And "reloadables" might be 1 ready 3 stowed for the same situation.

In "fixed" defensive positions double the number of stowed?

[Grenny]

A squad leader with X many extra lives.

Still better than it was.

Interesting so the best answer so far is:

"It Depends"

So "all in ones" with a PC close by might be 1 ready and 1/2 stowed.

And "reloadables" might be 1 ready 3 stowed for the same situation.

In "fixed" defensive positions double the number of stowed?

I'd go with that as a rule of thumb.

1/2 for mechanized and 1/max for "legs"

[Gibsonm]

So "all in ones" with a PC close by might be 1 ready and 1/2 stowed.

And "reloadables" might be 1 ready 3 stowed for the same situation.

In "fixed" defensive positions double the number of stowed?

Again "it depends" (what part of that don't you get ).

Sure in a prepared defensive position 1 ready and 6 stowed RPG-7v might be fine. The same with RPG-29 would not (look at the two types in the 3D world to get an idea of the relative sizes).

1 ready and 6 "stowed" Carl Gustav rounds isn't really workable for a team trying to maintain some form of mobility, esp. as they have to carry the gun too.

M72s - Fine.

Sorry but I'm not going to list all the possible combinations and permutations for you.

If you want a realistic rule of thumb look up the weight of these things, then add the soldier's combat load and then make a reasonable judgement if the guy can run from one position to another humping XX Kg on his back.

[Grenny]

More importantly, the magical RPG hand off that is performed when a squad leader dies in game

They'd have to create the AT weapon as some kind of object in game that can be dropped/taken up and so on.

And the have to give each soldier in the squad enought AI-brains to go and pick up the weapon...and in a tactical sensable way(crawling toward it at 90° to the enemy is not clever).

Hmm, so no other game that get that right so far.

For Sb one can but hope that esim finds spare coding time for that one.

[Lt DeFault]

I'd be okay with that remaining an abstraction for the foreseeable future.

[Gibsonm]

I'd be okay with that remaining an abstraction for the foreseeable future.

Agreed.

I think there are more pressing issues (even in the Infantry realm).

At least it better than the gunner being shot and then no one can use it.