BFV-Mastergunner Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 During missions noticed that when moving after an engagement, continuing mission, have to dismount then remount BFVs to get them to move. 3.23 start stop bug still there. Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Just a quick question.Is this an old (pre 3.023) scenario or a new built from scratch in 3.023 one?Maybe something has been carried forward from old to new?No real basis for that in fact, and no idea it if will fix it, just a query. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted January 5, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 5, 2015 OK, this one is tricky and we will have to gather more info over time. It could be that it is only happening on certain vehicles, but in any case more data is required. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotareneg Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 When 3.023 first came out I made a test scenario using the 29 PALMS Afgh map and a single M2A2 to see how the troops handled the buildings and walls. After getting the troops stuck and unstuck while trying to get them to mount the PC it eventually triggered that bug. I'll see if I can try to narrow it down to something repeatable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjay Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Rotar, I'd be happy to assist with this if you would like. The only way I can think of documenting this behaviour is to have a voice recording on what keys the player is pushing on top of the video, as control inputs don't show. I guess showing that behaviour on map routes would be somewhat easier as the drop down menu boxes give a decent indication of what the player is doing. You are the unrivalled expert in documenting bugs, but if I can help in any way, just let me know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjay Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 OK, this one is tricky and we will have to gather more info over time. It could be that it is only happening on certain vehicles, but in any case more data is required. How would you like that data submitted? FWIW, I've just spent an hour in the open desert outside Fallujah with a platoon of six Bradleys. Mounted, dismounted, moved the Brads about with and without their dismounts - both on map routes and driving manually - and generally did everything to try and get them to misbehave. And failed miserably. Vehicles and dismounts behaved impeccably at all times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted January 6, 2015 Members Share Posted January 6, 2015 During missions noticed that when moving after an engagement, continuing mission, have to dismount then remount BFVs to get them to move. 3.023 start stop bug still there.Single Player?Network Session?Testing from within the Mission Editor?Did you hit "C" to continue, "U"/"Shift+U" before or after hitting "C"? Or did you drive without plotting routes from the map screen? Or a mix?The more you can tell us, the less time we waste on testing methods that do not expose this bug. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjay Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 OK, this one is tricky and we will have to gather more info over time. It could be that it is only happening on certain vehicles, but in any case more data is required.See report of a little testing session above. Would you like me to repeat it with other IFVs? Thing is, I've only ever seen this problem in multiplayer - but that could be because I don't do much offline these days. UKA would be willing to test in multiplayer given some hints on what you'd like us to do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted January 7, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2015 See report of a little testing session above. Would you like me to repeat it with other IFVs? Thing is, I've only ever seen this problem in multiplayer - but that could be because I don't do much offline these days. UKA would be willing to test in multiplayer given some hints on what you'd like us to do.Well, the problem is that I don't have anything specific that I would like you to do, because I do not know exactly what causes the bug. That is why we need more information when the Sasquatch sighting occurs -- what was happening? What vehicle? Network Session or Offline? Was the vehicle or troops under fire? Where did it happen? Was the vehicle in a town or in the open or in a forest? Were the loading troops at full strength? Were the two troop teams spread apart by some distance? Etc.All I can say is, try different things in Network Session to break it and get it to the point that the infantry loads but the PC sits with the doors open waiting. We are basically looking for leads on how to track it down and isolate it. I guess if anyone notices any clues, just post them here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotareneg Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I can reproduce it now, and I think might be related to the order in which the troops mount the vehicle.I fast-forward the video until the bug first appears: while the troops are loading you'll notice the ones on the right side of the PC disappear and then reappear at 36 seconds, but with no ill effects as the vehicle was stationary. I unload and load multiple times, again fast-forwarded, until I get the bug to trigger again. When the troops disappear at 1:43 I drive forward and one of the squads "dismounts" out of thin air with the vehicle now showing the "start/stop bug."It seems to be a little unpredictable as to when it'll happen when loading the troops. I was clicking on the unit icon to load and unload the troops in the video, but it also happened using U and shift-U. At one point I was left the two squads partially dismounted with one guy in each squad outside the PC and the rest inside.G6UkKL_Ftjs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted January 7, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2015 OK thanks for the video and the info. We will give it a look and see if we can nail it down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjay Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I can reproduce it now, and I think might be related to the order in which the troops mount the vehicle.That must have taken some work! Salut. :luxhello: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjay Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 All I can say is, try different things in Network Session to break it and get it to the point that the infantry loads but the PC sits with the doors open waiting. The bug doesn't always take that form. Sometimes it affects IFVs with either a full load of troops or totally empty. Doors closed in both cases. You then get the situation where, given a route, the vehicle just stops every 100m or so, or, if being driven manually stops the same sort of distance after you remove you finger from the W key. Great to see that this is being treated as a matter of urgency, btw. It will be interesting to see if it manifests in Grenny's upcoming Finland campaign. Not sure whether to hope that it does or it doesn't. :c: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted January 7, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2015 I looked at the video, and it does not appear to show the PC-refuse-to-move bug. The issue that happens there at the end is what happens when you drive off during the middle of unloading (which of course does not look good - the troops appearing in thin air - but it is a separate and minor cosmetic issue that doesn't seem to actually cause the refusal to move bug AFAICT).The troops are unloaded when the first one appears, and the rest are just time delayed to appear on that spot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted January 7, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2015 The only common themes where this bug was actually noticed are:1) It seems to only happen in Network Session.2) It seems to only happen in large scenarios with a battalion or more on at least one side OR in smaller scenarios in cases where the host and/or client has a bad connection.This would indicate some sort of desync between host and client, so the host machine would still see infantry not loaded but the client sees infantry all loaded on his end. This is just a theory though. Next time this issue is noticed, have the host jump to the vehicle and observe if he sees infantry in the vehicle or not. Look for inconsistencies like the client seeing all infantry inside but the host might see them outside or some units sill on the map. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotareneg Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I looked at the video, and it does not appear to show the PC-refuse-to-move bug. The issue that happens there at the end is what happens when you drive off during the middle of unloading (which of course does not look good - the troops appearing in thin air - but it is a separate and minor cosmetic issue that doesn't seem to actually cause the refusal to move bug AFAICT).The troops are unloaded when the first one appears, and the rest are just time delayed to appear on that spot.The vehicle was refusing to move, you'll notice it was set to move at top speed but was sitting stationary. I guess I should have shown that better. Also, it wasn't a network session. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted January 7, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2015 Right, we are just theorizing that these are likely two different issues because (presumably by the video) the vehicle is able to start moving again. It might turn out not to be the case, it is just a current theory that the true refusal-to-move bug (ie. you cannot get it to move no matter what you do) is caused by overloaded network and some manner of desync between the host and client (the client sees the troops all loaded, while the host sees one soldier running around stuck on a wall or something). In the case of the latter, this would be very difficult to address in the near term and would require a long term net code solution to keeps things like this sycronized in the largest scenarios. This theory comes from the fact that in a few cases where this behavior was noticed before, the host and client saw two different realities due to the network overload (client was loaded in of PC with ramp down, host saw the vehicle empty with the troops somewhere else). This is why I say for everyone that sees it happen: ask the host to come to your vehicle and share his observation, this will help narrow it down. However, the thing you are talking about might actually be the cause (and it would be a lot simpler to fix if it was). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotareneg Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Ok, let us try one more time: With the attached scenario, wait for the infantry to begin loading into the vehicle. When two members of the A squad (the squad that is further away to the south) have mounted, press STOP and then FORWARD before the last A squad member reaches the PC. The vehicle will begin moving forwards with the last guy running after it. The PC will move a short distance, and then the B squad will start dismounted out of thin air where the PC originally was as the PC stops to load the last member of A squad. At this point the vehicle will be suffering from the "start/stop bug". If you give a route it will not take it. If you move the vehicle manually it will not move until you first issue a STOP command and then a movement command. It will then move a short distance before stopping again in the same state, requiring another stop command before moving. I then load the B squad into the PC, but the bug stays in effect. Finally I dismount both teams and the bug relents and the vehicle is free to move as normal. BP42j5dVLDM infantry_pc_bug.zip 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted January 8, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 8, 2015 OK thanks, we will check it out.But doesn't this issue here resolve itself once you press U and or SHIFT+U? In the Network Session bug there is no resolution for it if I am not mistaken, unless you give the unit back to the host and he returns it back to you after the troops are loaded/unloaded (or some such). PCs are not supposed to move during the load and unload procedure, and if it thinks it hasn't finished either process then it will sit and wait. The sticking point here is that even if we can do something about the user doing abnormal and strange things during the loading and unloading, then the Network Session issue would likely still exist. I just do not want everyone to get their hopes up just yet. :shocked: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjay Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Hi Rotar. Last night's offline testing was interesting but inconclusive. You and I seemed to be getting slightly different results. If you'd like to set up a special MP session to see if we can provoke the Host/Client disparity Volcano is talking about, I'd be happy to participate. The Fallujah mission I sent you last night is probably ideal as it has a platoon of 6 Bradleys and you can fool around with them to your heart's content without enemy interference as long as you stay about 1500m from the town. And if you are true masochist you can then send some of the dismounts into the town to confront the insurgents. Best to keep a loaded revolver by your side if you try this tho. And let's save the business of the Bradley AI gunners refusing to engage clearly visible targets that the TC has laid them onto for another day as that appears to be separate issue and nothing to do with the infantry. :clin: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotareneg Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Sure, I'll be around on TS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjay Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Can't do it tonight, but I'll see when Crusty and Hedge might be available. Would any DoW guys like to help out with this do you think? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjay Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I'll take that as a No then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 So far noone mentioned any Problems with mounting/dismounting+ IFV movement in the 1st FINLAND campaign run.In 2 weeks time we take out the CV90s for a ride. We will look out for problems then again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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