Gibsonm Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) The Military art/science tends to be a precise one and relies on precise/specific language to convey rapidly a clear understanding of a term/task to a subordinate, often when comms are not good and you may only receive part of the message. Clarity and Brevity are some of the hallmarks of good military communications. Recently Tjay and I had a joust over the meanings of words. Without reopening that issue (this in no way is meant to be some sort of “last word“), he was using one definition, I another. For example “Infantry” is a generic term You can have: Alpine Infantry Mountain Infantry Light Infantry Leg Infantry Motorised Infantry (one unit owns the trucks/PMV, another the passengers) Mechanised Infantry (the one unit owns the vehicles and the passengers) Infantry mounted in APCs (one unit owns the vehicles, another the passengers) Air mobile Infantry (one unit owns the helicopters, another the passengers) Heliborne / Air assault Infantry (the one unit owns the helicopters and the passengers) Parachute Infantry ... Commandos and other Special Forces soldiers are “Infantry” in terms of their trade. “Marines” (both USMC leathernecks and Royal Marine Commandos) are Infantry in terms of their skill set, if not branch of service. Anyway you get the picture. So I thought as a first step to reduce this confusion/friction and opportunity for misunderstanding, that I’d publish some key terms so we have a common working definition (I can’t give you a Glossary as it would be several/many pages long). The Key Terms I’m referring to are “Mission“ or “Task” verbs. These are the key terms that define what you are meant to be doing and what the person who has told you to do it, expects from you. So “Clear”, "Secure” and “Seize” are all subtly different. Notice that “Take Out” (a potentially outmoded term previously used for a social engagement) isn’t on the list. Below is a series of snapshots of a summary table: More to follow in next post ... Edited January 11, 2015 by Gibsonm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 Continuing on ... Last page to follow ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Last part ... Attached is a more complete document, which puts the tables in context but would take up too much room in the body of this post. I’ll add this to the “How To” guides as well. I’ve also attached the original NATO document for those who want the original reference. You also already have Appendix B to STANAG 2019 / MIL-STD-2525C in your X:\XXXXX\SB Pro PE 3.023\docs folder as part of the installation. Ideally now some of those squiggles on the map make a bit more sense and you’ll have a better idea what your Boss wants when he says: “You are to, something, in order to, something else”. Task Verbs 3.023.zip STANAG 2287 - Task Verbs.zip Edited January 11, 2015 by Gibsonm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Thanks Mark.Just a question concerning the counterattack that might get lost in translation:In our FM we have the destinction between 1.)"Gegen-angriff"=counterattack and 2.)"Gegen-Stoß"=literally counter-"push"Difference between the two:1.) Is pre planned. Approaches, BP, EA and so on have be prepared. They are usually done by the reserve. As soon as the BN CO wants his counterattack he just activates it, and the company CO does not have to do any more preperations then starting the engines and rolling.2.) Not prepared. Done when the local CO sees an opportinity to strike. Can be done by the reserve and/or troops already in contact. It usually needs a bit more prep-time as there has been now recon beforehand.Is there any differentiation between this 2 in the "tactical english" ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 I guess we'd call the first a Counter Attack whereas the second would likely be termed a "local" counter attack.Same overall idea but differing in planning and scope.A bit like a Quick Vs Deliberate Attack.One thing not listed about is the counter penetration (C-PEN) where the defender uses forces to re-establish their initial position/line as opposed to a Counter Attack which is more offensive in nature (re-establish the initial position and go forward, pushing the attacker back). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjay Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Many thanks for taking the trouble to share this Mark. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Many thanks for taking the trouble to share this Mark. I did not 'cos the "VS nfD" label these tabled have for us ;-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjay Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I did not 'cos the "VS nfD" label these tabled have for us ;-)I'm sure these words have meainings, but not for me. :heu: Explain please? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjay Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 JFYI Mark, I downloaded the .zip file and extracted the document. All the graphics symbols come out as solid blocks of black. But no big problem - I will cut and past your posts into a Word document. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjay Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Done. The spacing between sections is a bit screwed up, but I'll work on it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I'm sure these words have meainings, but not for me. :heu: Explain please?"VS nfD" means "Verschlußsache, nur für den Dienstgebrauch" which is equivalent(approx) to the english "classified" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 JFYI Mark, I downloaded the .zip file and extracted the document. All the graphics symbols come out as solid blocks of black. Thanks, At least someone is reading it. "Fixed" version at the bottom of Post #3: http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showpost.php?p=267700&postcount=3 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 I did not 'cos the "VS nfD" label these tabled have for us ;-) Well it took me a while to find an UNCLAS version too. Then of course I found the document in the Steel Beasts' installation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyfel Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I think this story board is a great follow up to Gibsonm's original post. The 2D map in the story board has the students company level operations graphics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Question: in the mil-english, is there a difference between Fliegerwarnung=> aircraft-warning (=unknown or friendly aircraft comming in) and Fliegeralarm=> aircraft-alert (=known hostile aircraft comming in) ?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Question: Is it important for a light cavalry officer to know how to draw?Answer: As important as to know how to write.Question: Why?Answer: Because with two lines, he says often more and better than with two written pages; and some strokes of the pen make faster, and easier than a report, and ensure and classify much better the details of this report than the recollections one can keep from a long reconnaissance. My purpose is not to make of you drawers, but to well put in few days on the tip of your fingers the useful figures of a language, which is new for most of you. F. de BRACK, 5 May 1831 Cavalry General officer(in "Avant-postes de Cavalerie Légère, Souvenirs") 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Question: in the mil-english, is there a difference between Fliegerwarnung=> aircraft-warning (=unknown or friendly aircraft comming in) and Fliegeralarm=> aircraft-alert (=known hostile aircraft comming in) ??Never heard of either of those (German specific perhaps?).All I've ever had was Air Red or Air Amber in combination with Weapons, Tight/Hold/Free.If some radar guy can't work out what it is and it flies into an area with Air Red and Weapons Free, its going to get a warm welcome. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt DeFault Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) ...My purpose is not to make of you drawers...Luckily for us, SB has built in graphics! :3starSK: Edited February 9, 2015 by Lt DeFault o.O 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Question: Is it important for a light cavalry officer to know how to draw? F. de BRACK, 5 May 1831 Cavalry General officer (in "Avant-postes de Cavalerie Légère, Souvenirs") Very, regardless of whether his is mounted on a horse or a recce vehicle (or even in a helo). Battlefield sketches are good records of reconnaissance and usually contain details otherwise forgotten by fatigue, stress, etc. The trick these days is getting the information back, analysed and distributed in a timely manner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tac197 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 One thing not listed about is the counter penetration (C-PEN) where the defender uses forces to re-establish their initial position/line as opposed to a Counter Attack which is more offensive in nature (re-establish the initial position and go forward, pushing the attacker back). From an infantryman: a counter penetration (c-pen) is a tasking in defence, normally in a deliberate/prepared defensive position where there has been a Mission to "Hold" or "Defend" given to the unit. At all levels, section, platoon, company and battalion, C-Pen tasking are given to elements of the unit. These tasks are normally rehearsed by day & night. For example in a company it may consist of the depth section of the depth platoon being tasked to provide C-Pen to the forward platoons. This can be lead by the CSM(company sergeant) or the XO if it involves members of the CHQ staff. Some times it can be tasked to elements of the Support or Admin companies not involved in the fight. (Normally pioneer platoon as Bn mortars and SFMG/DFSW will be tasked elsware) There have been many examples of the use of C-Pen forces being used to win a local victory which in turn changes the balance of the battle. I would highly recommend some reading on the Battle of Fire-Support Base Coral/Balmoral from the Australian involvement in the Vietnam War. In a movie sense: "We were Soldiers" has excellent examples of C-Pen forces being used in hasty defence by the Bn CO & Staff. Just adding an infantry perspective.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.