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Hermes

Danish 105mm PPTFS M/85 LS

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Hello,

I have a question for the ammunition experts.

Is the above Danish the same as the Israeli M413 (German DM33) for the Leopard 1 or at least comparable in its performance.

Many thanks

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Hello,

I have a question for the ammunition experts.

Is the above Danish the same as the Israeli M413 (German DM33) for the Leopard 1 or at least comparable in its performance.

Many thanks

I believe that Dm33 has its own entry in the Ammo dialog

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There is no explicitly listed DM33 in 105mm, however it seems likely that it could be a common round with M/85.

M111/DM23/PfielPat78 is listed, and has a lower performance than M/85.

M426/DM63 is listed, and has a higher performance than M/85.

CMC105 is the other potential candidate APFSDS round in 105mm with a performance slightly different from but comparable to M/85.

See the Wiki for the basic data for each round in the simulation.

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php?title=Ammunition_Data (Though I would think the indications for suitable substitutes for "German Leopard 2A4" should really be 1A4 :c:)

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We never got any designation other than the Danish one, and those designations aren't referenced in Jane's Ammunition Handbook. So I am unable to make a statement. What GSprocket wrote sounds plausible, though. Denmark has no tank ammunition plant of its own, so it must have been imported.

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See the Wiki for the basic data for each round in the simulation.

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php?title=Ammunition_Data (Though I would think the indications for suitable substitutes for "German Leopard 2A4" should really be 1A4 :c:)

Good catch, I fixed that. I guess I am so used to typing "2A4" that I made the typo twice. :eek:

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many thanks for all...

I hope Eisen may read my questions and as the god of Leo 1 could advise me which round would represent the DM33 105mm best...

Eisen, are you around? :yltype:

Hermes

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many thanks for all...

I hope Eisen may read my questions and as the god of Leo 1 could advise me which round would represent the DM33 105mm best...

Eisen, are you around? :yltype:

Hermes

He sort of already has, in relation to development of one of my scenarios, here: http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showpost.php?p=226094&postcount=19

For what it's worth, of the updated ammunition specs shipped with 3.023, I've chosen the M735 with 410 mm RHAe penetration to represent DM33 for my scenarios based on this earlier guidance from Eisenschwein.

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Well, after some Google-Fu and a quick check of Jane's Ammunition, the M/85 matches the DM33 in muzzle velocity, and the listed 420mm of penetration is right in the middle of the - albeit wide - claimed range for the German round. I think it's a good match, and have listed it as such in wiki. Of course, I could be wrong...

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Yes, that appears to be correct. All indications seem to be that the Danish PPTFS M/85 and the German DM33 and the Israeli M413 are the same round. The DK likely imported it and gave it their own designation, which would not be surprising. At least some archived notes support that theory.

In any case, the DM33 has long since been added into SB for the next full upgrade, but there is a technical reason why it is a pain to add new rounds to patches. At least you can be happy that it will be there eventually, and you can confidently use the PPTFS M/85 in the mean time. :)

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BTW, just out of curiosity (for notes)...

Does anyone have a reliable DOI for the 105mm DM33 round? I am aware of the well known website that says 1984, but it has no source on this. Other notes I have found suggest 1985 on when it was in production. Does anyone have a non-Internet source, or an Internet source which sites other sources that definitively states one or the other? "M85" from the DK designation suggests model 1985 after all. ;)

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...in Denmark, which may have been later than in those countries where it was originally developed and then offered for international sale.

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In any case, the DM33 has long since been added into SB for the next full upgrade, but there is a technical reason why it is a pain to add new rounds to patches.

I'm really glad to hear this, thanks Volcano and team at eSim! DM33 was one round we definitely needed in the virtual ready rack!

Edited by Panzer_Leader

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Well, you already have it, and always had it since the earliest days of SB Pro PE ... just under a different name. But functionally there is no difference.

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...in Denmark, which may have been later than in those countries where it was originally developed and then offered for international sale.

Yeah, that is what I was thinking. :)

I think we can attribute it to that (it makes sense that acquisition would have been after the Germans adopted it).

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