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The ARJUN MBT MK 2


Marko

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I really need to keep on top of my research I did not know there was a MK2

Let alone they had overcome the many teething issues the MK1 had.

Also I didn't know army recognition had there own youtube channel.

I was always a fan of there web site.

Check out the Arjun Mk 2

http://www.armyrecognition.com/defexpo_2014_show_daily_news_coverage_report/index.php

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Open source information:

INDIA - MAINTENANCE, RELIABILITY ISSUES PLAGUE ARJUN TANKS (MAY 01/TI)

TIMES OF INDIA -- Army officers in India say the indigenous Arjun tank is beset with technical problems, reports the Times of India.

The service has acquired 124 of the tanks since 2009. However, sources say the fleet has been suffering quality problems recently, with a significant number being inoperable and others non-serviceable due to maintenance issues.

The army is said to believe that the tank fleet is not combat-worthy because of reliability issues.

The incomplete transfer of technology for several imported systems prevents many of the tanks from returning to service, said one army official.

Because of the lack of domestic maintenance technology, many systems must be sent abroad even for minor repairs.

Paid Military Periscope subscribers can get more information on the Arjun at:

https://www.militaryperiscope.com/weapons/gcv/tanks/w0000761.html

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  • 5 months later...

I wonder how the pride of the Indian army compares with the Pakistani MBT

The AL Khalid. Bit of a unknown entity cant find much info on the AL Khalid.

I know it was part designed by the Chinese but Built in Pakistan

https://video-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xpf1/v/t42.1790-2/761804_434197423338792_1141465762_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjQ3MywicmxhIjoyNDg3LCJ2ZW5jb2RlX3RhZyI6ImxlZ2FjeV9zZCJ9&rl=473&vabr=263&oh=0d24e7f83a309ab32ad7194528bef074&oe=5622DB15

Edited by Marko
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I wonder how the pride of the Indian army compares with the Pakistani MBT

The AL Khalid. Bit of a unknown entity cant find much info on the AL Khalid.

I know it was part designed by the Chinese but Build in Pakistan

https://video-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xpf1/v/t42.1790-2/761804_434197423338792_1141465762_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjQ3MywicmxhIjoyNDg3LCJ2ZW5jb2RlX3RhZyI6ImxlZ2FjeV9zZCJ9&rl=473&vabr=263&oh=0d24e7f83a309ab32ad7194528bef074&oe=5622DB15

Does this help:

http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=181

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I wonder how the pride of the Indian army compares with the Pakistani MBT

The AL Khalid. Bit of a unknown entity cant find much info on the AL Khalid.

I know it was part designed by the Chinese but Built in Pakistan

https://video-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xpf1/v/t42.1790-2/761804_434197423338792_1141465762_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjQ3MywicmxhIjoyNDg3LCJ2ZW5jb2RlX3RhZyI6ImxlZ2FjeV9zZCJ9&rl=473&vabr=263&oh=0d24e7f83a309ab32ad7194528bef074&oe=5622DB15

As well as Indian Centurion did against Pakistani M48 Patrons in 1965 war.

Those patons can now be found all over India being used as war trophies.

AL-Khalid will be a nice addition to that

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Arjun is a most unimpressive tank IMO.

It does have a decent hull, the 1400hp might fool you into thinking it's less powerful than the 1500hp MTU, but it actually has higher torque than the MTU.

But the turret is a disaster.

first there's the ammunition storage. instead of being compartmentalized, it is merely spall-proofed. meaning any direct hit to ammunition storage, and the turret will go flying.

there's also the location of it. above the turret ring, which is utterly retarded, since it's not compartmentalized.

second there's the armour.

nRFeW8q.jpg

the front armour is not too bad, and should be able to stop most of the KE and HEAT rounds available in the vicinity, thanks to the kanchan composites.

however, there's a hole in the protection around the GPS.

instead of a composite slab behind the sight like on the leopard 2A4, there's steel with hardened steel inserts. this gives it around 550-700mm of protection. however, because it's steel it offers the same HEAT protection, which means the rest of the turret which is kanchan protected might have up to 1000mm vs HEAT.

and then there's the turret sides, which are ridicolously thin. barely 80-90mm.

and thanks to the design it doesn't even properly protect over the front 60 degree arc, like most western tanks.

and then there's the claim it can fire a missile.

it can't. the indians simply have been unable to make the missile work, and thanks to corruption and bureacracy, they managed to ban the israelis from helping with the tank.

the gun itself is just a disaster. rifled 120mm.

the best KE ammunition available for this gun is barely capable of penetrating 300mm at 2km.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mhJE-VGXV1Q/UQGAQlS5OFI/AAAAAAAADa4/GbWPQM6A3Ys/s1600/120mm+APFSDS+Round-1.jpg

if you thought the challenger was bad...

as for the Arjun mk.2, they added ERA to the thickest portion of the turret, and added ERA to front hull.

then they added a new TC sight, and an RWS. done.

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As well as Indian Centurion did against Pakistani M48 Patrons in 1965 war.

Those patons can now be found all over India being used as war trophies.

AL-Khalid will be a nice addition to that

I read that the pattons had very mixed results

In the Battle of Chawinda they held there own but performed badly in other major battles

This may have been due to poor leadership and tactics

Plus they didn't have the lethal L7 105 fitted( I think.)

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Arjun is a most unimpressive tank IMO.

It does have a decent hull, the 1400hp might fool you into thinking it's less powerful than the 1500hp MTU, but it actually has higher torque than the MTU.

But the turret is a disaster.

first there's the ammunition storage. instead of being compartmentalized, it is merely spall-proofed. meaning any direct hit to ammunition storage, and the turret will go flying.

there's also the location of it. above the turret ring, which is utterly retarded, since it's not compartmentalized.

second there's the armour.

nRFeW8q.jpg

the front armour is not too bad, and should be able to stop most of the KE and HEAT rounds available in the vicinity, thanks to the kanchan composites.

however, there's a hole in the protection around the GPS.

instead of a composite slab behind the sight like on the leopard 2A4, there's steel with hardened steel inserts. this gives it around 550-700mm of protection. however, because it's steel it offers the same HEAT protection, which means the rest of the turret which is kanchan protected might have up to 1000mm vs HEAT.

and then there's the turret sides, which are ridicolously thin. barely 80-90mm.

and thanks to the design it doesn't even properly protect over the front 60 degree arc, like most western tanks.

and then there's the claim it can fire a missile.

it can't. the indians simply have been unable to make the missile work, and thanks to corruption and bureacracy, they managed to ban the israelis from helping with the tank.

the gun itself is just a disaster. rifled 120mm.

the best KE ammunition available for this gun is barely capable of penetrating 300mm at 2km.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mhJE-VGXV1Q/UQGAQlS5OFI/AAAAAAAADa4/GbWPQM6A3Ys/s1600/120mm+APFSDS+Round-1.jpg

if you thought the challenger was bad...

as for the Arjun mk.2, they added ERA to the thickest portion of the turret, and added ERA to front hull.

then they added a new TC sight, and an RWS. done.

The penetration value is good enough for India.

Due to lack of actual numbers people often quote outdated material on the Internet.

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I read that the pattons had very mixed results

In the Battle of Chawinda they held there own but performed badly in other major battles

This may have been due to poor leadership and tactics

Plus they didn't have the lethal L7 105 fitted( I think.)

L7 was fitted on to some Pattons but not all. (See attached picture of captured Pak M-48 with possibly L7)

Pakistanis won the battle of CHawinda but with heavy losses .

They were in defensive positions.

Indians exhausted their attacks and finally withdrew after suffering heavy losses themselves.

Pakistanis also lost 518 square kilometers of territory , this was returned to Pakistan during peace talks and agreement.

Now , Lets Consider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Asal_Uttar

where pak lost more than 100 tanks M-47 and M-48s

while Indian losses were about 10 tanks.

Some of the Pakistani tanks were just abandoned in perfect condition.

While this was a result of poor leadership and tactics on Pak side it also was due to bloated reputation of Patton tank which made the Paks overconfident in its capabilities.

They failed the judge the more experience and better training Indian crews had with Centurions.

an-army-personal-painting-a-pakistani-ta

an-army-personal-painting-a-pakistani-ta

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Arjun is a most unimpressive tank IMO.

But the turret is a disaster.

first there's the ammunition storage. instead of being compartmentalized, it is merely spall-proofed. meaning any direct hit to ammunition storage, and the turret will go flying.

there's also the location of it. above the turret ring, which is utterly retarded, since it's not compartmentalized.

second there's the armour..

Arjun design was based on leo2

Including the ready rack in turret and ammo store in chassis.

It is your opinion that Arjun which follows exact same design as Leo 2 in terms of ammo store is something that can be classified as "retarded"

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Arjun design was based on leo2

Including the ready rack in turret and ammo store in chassis.

It is your opinion that Arjun which follows exact same design as Leo 2 in terms of ammo store is something that can be classified as "retarded"

arjun is just a pale shadow of the leopard 2A4, since the leopard 2A4 ammunition compartment is actually compartmentalized.

a direct hit to the ammunition compartment of the leopard 2A4 turret, will cause the ammunition to vent through the blowoff panel in the roof, giving the crew time to escape, or even remain in the tank.

however, Arjun ammunition is not in a separate compartment with a blast door.

ammunition is stored in sealed individual spall proof containers.

Kq8t1Iv.jpg

now as long as the ammunition is not directly hit during a penetration, parts of the crew will still survive. but a direct hit will kill everyone. there's no way in hell those dainty little tubes will hold over 500 MPA of pressure.

the walls on the compartment of the leopard 2A4 however, are designed to hold the pressure of all 15 rounds popping off at the same time, and vent all that pressure through the roof hatch.

R2SoLb3.jpg

as you can see, much thicker walls, and a proper blast door.

armour protection on the leopard 2A4 is superior in every way to the arjun as well.

and that at a lower weight. sides are thicker, front has less weakspots, and also

has a smaller front profile.

also while leopard 2A4 is merely 55.15 tonnes fully loaded,

Arjun mk.1 is a whopping 58.5 tonnes,

and mk.2 a ridicolous 68 tonnes.

anyways. if you want to store your ammunition in spall proof containers, it's better to store the ammo as low as possible. that's what the israelis did. that way you can reduce the bustle size, and thus the weight of the vehicle.

the weight saved on not having a bustle could instead be spent on bolstering the side armour on the hull, or turret.

however, i guess the indian designers wanted the arjun to look like a leopard. so they went ahead and bastardized the design.

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The penetration value is good enough for India.

Due to lack of actual numbers people often quote outdated material on the Internet.

300mm might have been top notch in the 60s.

but against Al khalid and T-80UD of pakistan and

type 96 and 98 of china, it's just ridicolously outclassed.

and i've yet to see any other round for the Arjun.

even the indigenous indian T-72 and T-90 ammunition is better, with 500mm RHA@2km.

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arjun is just a pale shadow of the leopard 2A4, since the leopard 2A4 ammunition compartment is actually compartmentalized.

a direct hit to the ammunition compartment of the leopard 2A4 turret, will cause the ammunition to vent through the blowoff panel in the roof, giving the crew time to escape, or even remain in the tank.

however, Arjun ammunition is not in a separate compartment with a blast door.

ammunition is stored in sealed individual spall proof containers.

Kq8t1Iv.jpg

now as long as the ammunition is not directly hit during a penetration, parts of the crew will still survive. but a direct hit will kill everyone. there's no way in hell those dainty little tubes will hold over 500 MPA of pressure.

the walls on the compartment of the leopard 2A4 however, are designed to hold the pressure of all 15 rounds popping off at the same time, and vent all that pressure through the roof hatch.

R2SoLb3.jpg

as you can see, much thicker walls, and a proper blast door.

armour protection on the leopard 2A4 is superior in every way to the arjun as well.

and that at a lower weight. sides are thicker, front has less weakspots, and also

has a smaller front profile.

also while leopard 2A4 is merely 55.15 tonnes fully loaded,

Arjun mk.1 is a whopping 58.5 tonnes,

and mk.2 a ridicolous 68 tonnes.

anyways. if you want to store your ammunition in spall proof containers, it's better to store the ammo as low as possible. that's what the israelis did. that way you can reduce the bustle size, and thus the weight of the vehicle.

the weight saved on not having a bustle could instead be spent on bolstering the side armour on the hull, or turret.

however, i guess the indian designers wanted the arjun to look like a leopard. so they went ahead and bastardized the design.

There is no doubt that Arjun's initial design was based on Leo2A4.

Indians , due to lack of tech expertise, experience and financial resources several areas which indian designers thought were not important enough were compromised on this included ammo store compartmentalization .

But why does it matter ? Arjun is not to impress you or the western countries. Nor is it designed to come in conflict with western tanks.

Arjuns main opponent is Pak Army. who by all means lack the will to fight conventional war with India and whenever they have they have lost.

It is highly illogical to consider Arjun is in competition with western tanks and compare them.

You are comparing highly industrialized and technology advance country's achievement with that of Country which is far behind. No Logic in that.

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There is no doubt that Arjun's initial design was based on Leo2A4.

Indians , due to lack of tech expertise, experience and financial resources several areas which indian designers thought were not important enough were compromised on this included ammo store compartmentalization .

But why does it matter ? Arjun is not to impress you or the western countries. Nor is it designed to come in conflict with western tanks.

Arjuns main opponent is Pak Army. who by all means lack the will to fight conventional war with India and whenever they have they have lost.

It is highly illogical to consider Arjun is in competition with western tanks and compare them.

You are comparing highly industrialized and technology advance country's achievement with that of Country which is far behind. No Logic in that.

Well a lot of the worlds heavy plant is now built in India.

There's a lot of technical know league and skilled engineers there.

They have been kit/licence building The T-72/90 for some time now.

It was with a lot of pride India designed and built indigenous tank

But one has to speculate would they have been better licence building the T-90MS

And the latest ammo for it.

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Well a lot of the worlds heavy plant is now built in India.

There's a lot of technical know league and skilled engineers there.

They have been kit/licence building The T-72/90 for some time now.

It was with a lot of pride India designed and built indigenous tank

But one has to speculate would they have been better licence building the T-90MS

And the latest ammo for it.

Industrialization in India is in no way close to Western countries.

Arjun Mk2 will most likely be 1-2 regts , India's main MBT will be T90s.

However Arjun is a good thing for India as it helps India develop experience and expertise.

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I don't see why it matters to anyone here.

Certainly everyone here who is eagerly giving their advice will have no effect on Indian policy makers.

Nor it's their money.

That's the funny thing about discussion forums people discuss things.

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Industrialization in India is in no way close to Western countries.

Arjun Mk2 will most likely be 1-2 regts , India's main MBT will be T90s.

However Arjun is a good thing for India as it helps India develop experience and expertise.

India's got one of the best steel industries in the world. second largest producer of steel in 2013.

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More like people making statements and illogically comparing tank made by a developing country which has never developed a tank before to ones made by developed western countries.

Arjun is considered matter of pride for Indians as this was their first attempt.

Sure its not perfect but its still a step in the direction,And its still a work in progress.

T-90s will still be mbt of the Indian army while Arjun will continue to be developed and used as means to develop experience in the field.

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