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DCS Ka-50 is also quite serious simulation. Look at the flight model of Ka-50 and then compare it to "driving model" of the tanks in SB. In SB tanks do not even have torque curves modeled so Abrams is always slower than LEO in SB while its something different in reality.

Look at the ABRIS system in DCS and compare it to not really functional battlefield management system in Leopardo 2 or STRV122.

Look at the switches, most of them are functional in Ka-50, while its not true for many vehicles in SB.

So both SB PRO PE and DCS are quite serious simulations. Both have advantages and disadvantages, both have simplifications (sometimes really annoying as for such serious simulations) and both have bugs.

I just do not accept the way Esim chosen. 115$ is a lot of money for guys from Poland but it could be acceptable if there would be free upgrades.

$40 for an upgrade??? $40 for something that is meant to be free??? It sounds like cheap (or maybe rather very expensive) joke for me. SB PRO PE is simply endless expense. And i am not trolling anyone. I am just not ready for endless expenses. And i am just not American. Not everybody lives in America, some people from USA very often forgetting that there are also other people on the world.

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+1.

Not sure who is trolling here. Writing posts like "+1" that do not gives any arguments can also be some kind of "trolling" don't you think? So before calling me a troll think about yourself. I am not trolling anyone, as i said i am just not American you expecting me to be.

So sometimes people just forgetting that not everybody is the same, not everybody is a Bill Gates and not everybody is hes American cousin ;)

And as i said i don't wanna become a bit** for a sim or game or whatever...

...Especially when i am male and not a gay ;)

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$40 for an upgrade??? $40 for something that is meant to be free???

Pardon? Bug fixing patches has always been free. Upgrades that bring new stuff can hardly bee seen as meant to be free just because you bought SB once.

/KT

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Everybody: Take one step back. We all know what happens if this thread continues on this path. Kill eachother in real life or bitch through PM's, I do not care, but we do not want to push this further.

Mkay?

/KT

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Pardon? Bug fixing patches has always been free. Upgrades that bring new stuff can hardly bee seen as meant to be free just because you bought SB once.

Really?

Look at SABOW. May upgrades, all of them free.

ArmA 3 had also some nice features added (i do not mean payware DLC that are optional) and those are not just bugfixes.

Upgrade in a price of the full game? That's craaaazzzzyy.

I will never accept such unfair things, endless expenses maybe are good for rich people who don't care about their money. But again, i am not Bill Gates, i am not even American... I must remind you again.

I do not care, but we do not want to push this further.

Really? You don't care and that's the reason why you post 2 posts instead of editing single post?

Its starting to get funny when some people starts to deny themselves.

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So go play that instead and stop trolling this forum. Everyone wins.

Kids you: do not feed ze troll , do not attack ze troll do not anounce to ignore ze troll. If it really ist ein troll it will only grow stronk.

If really is troll, just don't take what it writes serious and you'll have more happy Leben.:-D

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just don't take what it writes serious and you'll have more happy Leben

The reason why i was forced to change my signature, even when previous one about the "duckheads" was way more funny :)

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Just because it works for huge companys that makes SABOW and ARMA 3 does not mean it works for everyone. Look for example on Battlefront with it combat mission series where they do one base game and then every extension has to bee payed for if you want it.

Clearly works for them as well. In the end it is up to Esimgames to decide how they want it and what they deem workable and if we don't like it we bring our money elsewhere, but if we accept it we give them our money - easy as that.

What I am referring to when saying "do not push this further" is that my experience from this kind of threads tells me we are heading into bad direction and soon there will be personal attacks which ends up with warnings and thread locked.

And that is what I am trying to avoid.

/KT

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Just because it works for huge companys that makes SABOW and ARMA 3

I am not sure if Graviteam is a big company. At least much smaller than BIStudio, maybe even hundred times smaller.

Esim is small, but it takes money from defence agencies (not sure if Graviteam does the same), so its in fact much stronger than it looks for civilians. BIStudio also takes money from defence agencies.

soon there will be personal attacks which ends up with warnings and thread locked.

Don't worry about it. I am not a real troll ;)

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DCS Ka-50 is also quite serious simulation. Look at the flight model of Ka-50 and then compare it to "driving model" of the tanks in SB. In SB tanks do not even have torque curves modeled so Abrams is always slower than LEO in SB while its something different in reality.

Look at the ABRIS system in DCS and compare it to not really functional battlefield management system in Leopardo 2 or STRV122.

Look at the switches, most of them are functional in Ka-50, while its not true for many vehicles in SB.

So both SB PRO PE and DCS are quite serious simulations. Both have advantages and disadvantages, both have simplifications (sometimes really annoying as for such serious simulations) and both have bugs.

I just do not accept the way Esim chosen. 115$ is a lot of money for guys from Poland but it could be acceptable if there would be free upgrades.

$40 for an upgrade??? $40 for something that is meant to be free??? It sounds like cheap (or maybe rather very expensive) joke for me.

There's a couple of ways at looking at this.

Yes the modules in DCS are very high fidelity but you pay for each one.

I am sure Esim could emulate this business model. I.e. you pay for each model

now add up how much it would cost for the amount of playable vehicles in game.

Even if they were ten euro each your talking hundreds of euro.

Plus esim don't charge for maps something DCS do.

The tank sim market is a niche with in a niche milsim market.

And then there's the fact its taken fifteen years to get the sim where it is today no small feat

I do appreciate that in some country's ten euro in real terms means a lot more then others you would pay that for a beer in some places I know in my country.

but you cant base a pricing strategy on a country's capita per person.

I truly believe the price is fair for what were getting.

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Even if they were ten euro each you talking hundreds of euro.

10 euro would be unfair price. Because Ka-50 in DCS is much more detailed than Abrams in SB PRO PE and i bought DCS:BS2 for about 10 euro.

The tank sim market is a niche with in a niche milsim market.

Yes it is. But they are selling its product for defense customers that pays much more than civilians do. Again, Esim is much stronger than it looks for civilians as the civilian sales are only small part of business.

Plus esim don't charge for maps something DCS do.

But limits the map size to 20x20km. Look how huge is DCS map.

I truly believe the price is fair for what were getting.

Unlimited ammount of $ is fair? Even Bill Gates do not have unlimited $! Payware upgrades = endless expense. You never know how much will you have to pay for next one. If you are lucky enough you will die soon and do not have to pay for next upgrades ;)

Its hard to resist when you see new vehicles in upgrades. It can very quickly steal all the money from your pocket. So i prefer to do not buy it to do not have to pay for upgrades.

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10 euro would be unfair price. Because Ka-50 in DCS is much more detailed than Abrams in SB PRO PE and i bought DCS:BS2 for about 10 euro.

Yes it is. But they are selling its product for defense customers that pays much more than civilians do. Again, Esim is much stronger than it looks for civilians as the civilian sales are only small part of business.

But limits the map size to 20x20km. Look how huge is DCS map.

Unlimited ammount of $ is fair? Even Bill Gates do not have unlimited $! Payware upgrades = endless expense. You never know how much will you have to pay for next one. If you are lucky enough you will die soon and do not have to pay for next upgrades ;)

My wife, bank manager and other creditors have informed me I cant afford to die, LoL

The map issue is not relevant you need much bigger maps for a plane sim then a Tank sim

And if you want to get technical about it.

the military version of SB has maps equally as big as DCS's with a much bigger verity have you ever played combined Arms the ground effects are terrible.

Plus one more thing if you don't want to update you dont have to

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Plus one more thing if you don't want to update you dont have to

Its easy to say but hard to resist.

And i know that military versions of SB has big maps, but you have to be above Bill Gates (bill gates will never be able to drive real tank just like defence contractors can) to get it.

have you ever played combined Arms the ground effects are terrible.

In SB ground effects are not a lot better. Terrain mesh with many rough edges (that not only looks terrible but also is unrealistic*) and ugliest looking road ever (with no even true crossroads and sidewalks).

*Terrain is tactically very important as it provides cover. In reality there are no rough terrain edges until you are in mountain terrain. Those triangle looking edges are quite annoying, especially on roads.

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I have to say that I am in agreement with Macieksoft.

I can afford buying SB but it is a matter of principle. It is just gaming and I will not pay 115 dollars plus 40 dollars for the upgrade or 200 dollars for Prepar3Dv3 etc. In addition I do not have so much time to play anymore.

Coming back to DCS, you seem to forget that maybe 6 to 8 times per year they offer discount that are even increased as time passed. For example 2 years ago DCS BS was discounted at 20 euros and now it is around 10. It will be the same for all the addons. So if you are patient you will have them all for 10. But anyway if you have 2 or 3 is sufficient, so you cannot end up at 100 euros and more.

Yes, it is because of the price of SB that I took SABOW and then I will even buy the DLC for 8. I will pay in total 23 euros and I'm sure I can play the next 10 years considering that there are a lot of other sims that I like out there anyway.

The pricing for SB is completely unfair considering the money the company get from military contracts. That's what I think. Move the game to Steam and you will probably make the same amount of money anyway.

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Move the game to Steam and you will probably make the same amount of money anyway.

Yes, move it to steam!!!! Yes this is the way!

Everybody will be happy!

Pirates will get a way to get the game for free (moving to steam would probably force to say bye to codemeter).

And Esim will be happy because of much better promotion and probably more customers!

The only problem will be in support.

You have to be ready for kids asking "why the laser cannot kill a tank just like it does in hollywood movies?" ;)

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10 euro would be unfair price. Because Ka-50 in DCS is much more detailed than Abrams in SB PRO PE and i bought DCS:BS2 for about 10 euro.

So you need a classroom version of SB or something with similar functionality? Wait-wait-wait... Why do you need a desktop gunnery/ procedure trainer(a controlled item, BTW)?

Yes it is. But they are selling its product for defense customers that pays much more than civilians do. Again, Esim is much stronger than it looks for civilians as the civilian sales are only small part of business.

You know, its not so polite to count money in someone`s pocket...

But limits the map size to 20x20km. Look how huge is DCS map.

And? Sure bigger is better, but 20x20km map is more than sufficient even for battalion-sized scenarios. Just don't compare uncomparable.

Unlimited ammount of $ is fair? Even Bill Gates do not have unlimited $! Payware upgrades = endless expense. You never know how much will you have to pay for next one. If you are lucky enough you will die soon and do not have to pay for next upgrades ;)

Nobody forces you to purchase upgrade.

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Its easy to say but hard to resist.

And i know that military versions of SB has big maps, but you have to be above Bill Gates (bill gates will never be able to drive real tank just like defence contractors can) to get it.

In SB ground effects are not a lot better. Terrain mesh with many rough edges (that not only looks terrible but also is unrealistic*) and ugliest looking road ever (with no even true crossroads and sidewalks).

.

The SB Terrain is by no means perfect but its a hell of a lot better then the near completely

flat terrain in CA, Plus if you purchase the next update it comes with a new terrain engine.

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You know, its not so polite to count money in someone`s pocket...

And thinking that everybody in the world is rich American and other people beside America do not counts at all is polite? I don't think so. Many of people on this forum nevermind that its a lot of money for foreign ppl from other countries.

Nobody forces you to purchase upgrade.

As i said few posts before its easy to say but hard to resist.

So you need a classroom version of SB or something with similar functionality? Wait-wait-wait... Why do you need a desktop gunnery/ procedure trainer(a controlled item, BTW)?

Oh how many times people asked me why. Why i am making firing systems? Why i am amateur electronic? Why the fu** i bought a "calculator" for a 200PLN (it was not really a calculator but a programmable computer from 1995 lol)? Why i am interested in aviation? Just a few examples from my live.

As i am not a psychologist so i have no idea. But i know that those things simply makes me happy.

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DCS has bigger maps. But they are basicly billiard tables. Much more detail in SB.

Good for a flightsim (at which DCS is great) but lousy for ground combat.

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Thats why i said that both things are in fact quite good and serious simulations with lot of advantages and ofc disadvantages.

At least that speaks for SB.

It has a lot of advantages but a price is killing it! Its like the best tank that costs as much as B-2 bomber!

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And thinking that everybody in the world is rich American and other people beside America do not counts at all is polite? I don't think so. Many of people on this forum nevermind that its a lot of money for foreign ppl from other countries.

As i said few posts before its easy to say but hard to resist.

Was not trying to offend

I don't have a lot of disposable income my self

I was simply pointing out the upgrades are worth the money.

there no such thing as a free lunch.

Quality costs.

You seam like a true milsim fan.

You have made your point and I respect your comments but we will have to agree to disagree on the pricing issue.

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