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Everybody: Take one step back. We all know what happens if this thread continues on this path. Kill eachother in real life or bitch through PM's, I do not care, but we do not want to push this further.

Mkay?

/KT

+1 Please guys - do not feed the troll.

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I just do not accept the way Esim chosen.

We get the message. You have made this point over and over. Now will you just go away. Please?

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Kids you: do not feed ze troll , do not attack ze troll do not anounce to ignore ze troll. If it really ist ein troll it will only grow stronk.

If really is troll, just don't take what it writes serious and you'll have more happy Leben.:-D

Plus another 1. I will not be visiting this thread again. Or any other thread in which I see posts by this person.

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FWIW, I have never regretted one cent of what I've paid over the years. The sim, numerous upgrades, multiple licenses...all of it is well worth it to me. I'm not rich by most standards, but I budget and save my money to buy the things I enjoy. And I wouldn't trade the experiences I've had playing SB online with this community for anything.

And to the troll in this thread: don't bother responding to me, I don't see your posts anymore. You're only the second person I've done that to, and I suspect you'll end up just like the first...not here for long. Anyway, it doesn't matter much to me.

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10 euro would be unfair price. Because Ka-50 in DCS is much more detailed than Abrams in SB PRO PE and i bought DCS:BS2 for about 10 euro.

Yes it is. But they are selling its product for defense customers that pays much more than civilians do. Again, Esim is much stronger than it looks for civilians as the civilian sales are only small part of business.

But limits the map size to 20x20km. Look how huge is DCS map.

Unlimited ammount of $ is fair? Even Bill Gates do not have unlimited $! Payware upgrades = endless expense. You never know how much will you have to pay for next one. If you are lucky enough you will die soon and do not have to pay for next upgrades ;)

Its hard to resist when you see new vehicles in upgrades. It can very quickly steal all the money from your pocket. So i prefer to do not buy it to do not have to pay for upgrades.

well, there's 78 playable vehicle sin SB, and 8 playable ATGMs.

while the FCS is simpler, the model is more complex.

DCS model is largely boxes and circles, and you have large windows, which means cockpit you don't have to model.

in a tank you have opening hatches with multiple positions, moving gun breech, multiple crew positions, and multiple positions within positions, multiple sights with complex models, multiple guns with different ammunition, and also different pivots, an enormous amount of cables running everywhere... all of these things add up. i can spend 2-3 weeks on the cables alone, making sure they run to the correct spots, and such.

a DCS cockpit, you can basically copy-paste and move most of the switches and buttons, and then tweak the UVs a bit. the really only complex parts to model are the seat,

flightstick and window frames.

from what i see of it, the blackshark interior model would take about half to 1/3 the time a complex tank interior would take.

anyways, let's just go with your assumption that tank interiors are less complex than plane interiors, just for comparison purposes. (DCS P-51D mustang retailing at 29.99 would tell you otherwise...)

we have 14 high fidelity interiors in SB.(not including the duplicates, and the minor modifications)

let's put them at 5$ each, half that of DCS.

then lets put the remaining playable vehicles at 2$, and the missile launchers at the same price. what do we get?

70$ for the complex vehicle interiors.

144$ for the simple playable vehicles and missiles.

so a total of 214$

and then we could give you the base game for free, with no playable vehicles :P

given that, 115$ for the full game is a bargain.

still, you're discounting the reason why the fidelity is lower for the tanks.

we model the essential systems, and then we spend the rest of development time making the battlefield more lively.

the DCS environment is tactically sterile, because they poured all of their dev time into making a hyper-detailed flight model and avionics model.

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14 high fieldlity interiors? Lets count them.

CV-90/30

CV-90/35

CV-90/40

Ulan

Pizzarro

Centauro

T-72M1

And no LEO and no Abrams because they are missing functions for so many switches! Not even turret power for Abramses...

Still all of them missing any kind of radio implementation that is pain in the ass in MP. Also there is no serious driver panel and loader is not crewable.

No FBCB2...

and the missile launchers at the same price

It would be another abnormal thing as i never seen payware launchers for any sim or game...

Javelin still missing features! NVS cooldown, misfires, BIT, focus etc.

we model the essential systems

It sounds like a joke for me as there is no turret power switch for Abramses and for some other vehicles like Bradley.

Its like a lightbulb in your room you cannot turn off and you are forced to sleep with light on!

No startup procedure possible = missing essential systems!

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The reason why i was forced to change my signature, even when previous one about the "duckheads" was way more funny :)

I mean 50% of that sign line was howling stupid, but why did you change it?

Are you that spineless? :-D

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14 high fieldlity interiors? Lets count them.

CV-90/30

CV-90/35

CV-90/40

Ulan

Pizzarro

Centauro

T-72M1

And no LEO and no Abrams because they are missing functions for so many switches! Not even turret power for Abramses...

both M1A1 and leopard 2 FCS are vastly more complex than the rudimentary T-72M1 FCS, (which is missing some emergency functionality for the autoloader BTW, and none of the fusebox switches are modeled.)

but all of these systems are more complex than a P-51D mustang, which DCS sells at 29.99$

plus the abrams and leopard 2 interiors took me over 2 months to create. i literally spent over 300 hours on each.

anyways, yes actually 15, not counting similar or nearly identical functionality wise.

leopard 1A5,

leopard 2A4,

leopard 2a5DK,

leopardo 2E /strv 122

M1/M1A1

M1A2 SEP

T-72M/M1

CV9030F

CV9035DK

Cv9035NL

CV9040B/C

M2A2 bradley

Pizarro

Ulan

Centauro

but i forgot the remote weapon station equipped trucks.

like the

Eagle IV/piranha 3C/man SX w. lemur

LMV w. Elbit

so that brings us to 17 different vehicles.

now if i used the price of the P-51D expansion pack, that'd be 509$ total alone.

talk about rip-off...

maybe we should take out all of the playable vehicles, and leave only the M1A1 and leopard 2A4 like the original SB, and make all the other ones available pay to download...

we'd certainly make a ton more money that way, and you'd end up paying 5 times the price you pay now to get all the vehicles....

Still all of them missing any kind of radio implementation that is pain in the ass in MP. Also there is no serious driver panel and loader is not crewable.

adding all the switchology to radios would add marginally to the experience, what would add to the experience is to simulate radio signal range and environment clutter.

higher drivers position fidelity would add marginally to the experience as well, since the majority of the time you spend either in the gunner or TC seat, or you're dead.

loaders position are available in pro only, and would add marginally to the experience in pro PE.

anyways, i would equate just a full simulation of the drivers position on a T-72M1 to be equal to simulating a P51D mustang in DCS.

which again, i'll just point out, ships for 29.99$

how can i do this?

well let's just count gauges and buttons.

P51D mustang:

18 gauges on front panel

28 switches

12 indicator lights

14 modal switches

control stick, RPM lever, and canopy opening mechanism

and a HUD.

T-72

16 gauges total

18 switches and 9 buttons not counting switches under fusebox panel

24 indicator lights

7 modal switches

3 pedals, 2 brake levers, gear selector, and a hatch opening mechanism.

in addition 3 vision blocks.

so comparing here:

P-51 has 2 more gauges, 1 more switch, 12 fewer indicator lights, and 7 more modal switches. seems fairly even to me functionality wise. what the T-72 lacks in switches it makes up for with indicator lights.

so since you believe the DCS model is the holy grail of how business hould be conducted,

i suppose charging a separate fee for turret and hull modeling would be fair...

No FBCB2...

meh.

It would be another abnormal thing as i never seen payware launchers for any sim or game...

Javelin still missing features! NVS cooldown, misfires, BIT, focus etc.

that's because you've never seen missile launchers modeled in any other sim like SB does.

and as for javelin, the AI would burn out the javelin batteries in a jiff.

It sounds like a joke for me as there is no turret power switch for Abramses and for some other vehicles like Bradley.

Its like a lightbulb in your room you cannot turn off and you are forced to sleep with light on!

No startup procedure possible = missing essential systems!

heh, abrams powering up is literally 5 buttons and you're on.

driver turns on tank, TC turns on master power, then turret power then puts gun to armed. and gunner turns on thermals. done.

and what does this add to the simulation tactically? zero.

the only point of this would be if SB was a study sim like DCS. it's not.

it's a tactical ground combat simulator. that means we have a strong emphasis on how vehicles interact with eachother and the terrain, and a weak emphasis on the details on how you interact with your vehicle.

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and what does this add to the simulation tactically? zero.

I guess that you hate both, immersion and switches.

For me power up procedure is something very important.

And if its modeled in Centauro and Ulan why not in Abrams?

Bradleys are also fuc*** up cause the only switch on turret control power is for FAN. Are you crazy? Fan? Does fan adds something tactical to simulation? Nope. Fan switch is modeled (even when nobody needs it) while turret power is not. Looks like somebody was drunk when making Bradley!

And everybody knows that P-51D module for DCS is the about the worst selling module ever. Only few people got it and i don't want to pay for it. But anyway, at least it has a flight model.

not counting similar or nearly identical functionality wise.

CV-90/35DK and NL are preatty much the same.

Some LEO missing switches for a periscopes i guess (on this control boxes, right side on commander's place). One variant of LEO has one switch working. And they miss a lot of switches on the gunner's control panel. Same thing with Abramses, switches for thermals does not work (Centauro has them working).

And why they have working switches for a searchlight but the searchlight is not working at all? Craziest thing i ever seen in any "game". Panel for searchlight works but light don't works at all...

So what those switches adding?? Completly nothing. Another thing that is added but does nothing.

Instead of adding working switches that controls nothing they could make at least turret power switch!

Ssnake please explain me logic behind the switches for searchlight... Because i cannot stop laughing when i thing about this.

T-72

16 gauges total

18 switches and 9 buttons not counting switches under fusebox panel

24 indicator lights

7 modal switches

3 pedals, 2 brake levers, gear selector, and a hatch opening mechanism.

in addition 3 vision blocks.

Pedals? Levers? Gear selector? They do not works in SB, you cannot even see them as there is no driver space modeled in 3D. You cannot even change gears in SB.

Even in shitty DCS:P-51D all those small shitts are modeled (even fuse box). And they gave civilian P-51D (without weapons) for free for everybody!

And those damn lack of SAFE switch position for tanks. We have SAFE buttons working for Ulan, Pizzarro, CV-90/30 and maybe some other vehicles. Why not in Abrams or LEO?

Battle value is serious here. It prevents from accidental firing. It is important (at least until you want to shoot some buddies ass).

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I really think this thread has run its course, there's nothing more to be gained from it.

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